To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

[BlueEyedStarling]

Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble, but all of the pensioners I know, are pretty well off, or comfortable, at least. I live and have older family in the South East, but my dad and his elderly partner, live in the North. Literally, all of them say they dont need the WFA, but happily accept it regardless and shouted from the rooftops when it was taken away from them. Just how long can the working age population keep paying for this increasing, triple-lock section of society who are, as a whole, the wealthiest amongst us? Personally, we fell through the gaps of being able to receive any child benefit (only just!), but have always been willing to accept that we didn't need it and therefore shouldn't have it. Is it that our middle-aged generation just dont shout as loudly about things that affect us? I do want to add that I am very aware that there are many pensioners who should be in receipt of the WFA and that the cut off was too low. Also, that our pensioners fair pretty badly in comparison to much of Europe. It seems criminal that it can't be means tested to benefit those who really do need it.

You're not a fan of seeing the bigger picture are you? Helping your offspring in their lives impacts on their mental health, ability to carry out their professional roles, look after their children, who in turn will look after the next generation and contribute to a growing population. Why does society not benefit from that? I notice you didn't address the community work; volunteering in charity shops, sitting on parish councils, residents' committees etc. Boomers have put in their shift, facing adversities along the way as well as reaping later rewards - why shouldnt they? What about those who are still having to work? I bet you froth over the state pension. Shove your own stereotype.

ETA: feckless single parent daughter? You really are something.

You are in a bubble.

Reforms plans would leave a £55bn black hole in the countries finances.

Double that according to all the reports I’ve seen.

And they pay in more in the first place. The average pensioner in the UK is a net recipient by the age of 70.

Yes - they’ve pissed off the pensioners who have worked 35/ 40 years, have the full state pension (many single women in this bracket), no private pension and are a few quid over the limit for pension credit and the children of those pensioners who will be angry on their behalf. Plus the cohort of people like me who think it is grossly unfair that people who have paid max NI and are a few quid over the limit will receive less than those on pension credit who may have worked considerably less than 35/40 years.

What about pensioners whose only income is their state pension. They are not eligible for pension credit so don’t receive WFA. They aren’t tax payers as the state pension is currently below the threshold. My neighbour is in this situation. She spent decades caring full time for an adult child with severe learning and physical disabilities. Sadly now deceased. She was never in a position to have an occupational pension. Now in her 70’s her income is her new state pension but as it’s paid in full there is no pension credit entitlement. She and others in the same position fall through the cracks .

Yes, how grabby and selfish of her 🙄

It's not a u turn, they're reviewing the threshold - which i actually think is sensible. I don't think it should be a universally applied benefit though. If we can't afford PIP then we can't afford universal WFP.

This is a genuine question. Given that means testing is too expensive to be effective, or so we re told, how could it be arranged so that people who don’t need WFA could opt out or return it, or what scheme could be used?

I know people who give it to charity and I know people who keep it for themselves. I’d be happy to forgo it, as long as there was a proper system that ensured those in need benefited. It’s a blunt instrument at the moment.

I totally agree with means testing the WFA. Lots of pensioners, like my dad, really don't need it. However, the original threshold was set way too low and the people who were just above the cutoff would have experienced genuine hardship as a result of losing that money.

I assume that the "u-turn" won't be about reversing it for everyone, but rather about raising the threshold to allow more pensioners to claim it. I absolutely support this, personally. If you're old and poor, there is fuck all that you can do to improve your situation.

People who fall through the cracks like this should receive it. There are pensioners who don't need it and it shouldn't be a universal benefit.

@BIossomtoes
That’s lovely to hear 😊
I’m sure many people are quietly doing that but it gets lost in all the noise about not letting the old people have too much because it’s not faiiiiir 🤣

They won’t do a complete U turn.

They will find a new threshold, which is the right thing to do.

Living on state pension if you are a single householder is very very tight. 100% of all overheads, bills, maintenance, and 75% of council tax.

All much easier even if there are two of you just on state pension.

In China they cut their billionaires down to size - a few billion is regarded as enough the state wants the rest. In the free west our tech bros trillionaires or near ones are busy hollowing out our societies and making rockets as a new car to show off with. Meanwhile we nickel and dime the old as greedy.Truth be told the west is in terminal decline now beset by increasing unsustainable debt, vast welfare state entitlements for all and a collapse of our manufacturing base that we outshored to the east which has none of those structural problems.

I agree to an extent.

I think reversing the 2 child cap should have come first (this doesn’t affect me for context).

I’m all for these things being universal in theory, but not cherry picking what will be universal. Child benefit should go back to being universal if this one is - or if not, should be based on household not individual income.

The reason many boomers don't downsize is the crippling rate of CGT RR has imposed.

You don’t pay CGT on your main residence. 🤷‍♀️

And 23% of single women pensioners live in poverty.

The baby boomers have been quite happy to watch everyone younger than themselves freeze in mouldy rental flats and work for nothing for themselves.

Im at the end of the baby boom. 6 months later l’d be in Gen x

No, ive never felt like that.

Its not just the expectations and demands on the state that is the issue but also people's expectations of what is a normal lifestyle. I have seen news clips, SM posts and post on here debating this. And some of the requirements are ridiculous. I can't feel sorry for someone who can "only" afford to put their heating on for an hour in the morning and a couple in the evening or those who are "only" heating the rooms they use because I thought we were all doing that anyway? Same for having to wear jumpers indoors, using hotwater bottles, not eating meat all week, buying secondhand etc.

No, this isn’t normal.

Life was good in the 90’s and 2000’s. People should be able to earn enough to heat their house how they want. This used to be normal. I knew no one except my elderly dm who used hot water bottles.

l was a single parent in the late 90’s. I had money to keep my house toasty and do fun stuff. I was a teacher, so not highly paid.

If you own one house that you live in, you don’t pay any CGT.
Do you mean stamp duty?

Its a funny kind of broke in the UK , because there is plenty of money and perks available when the government want there to be.
Instead of hunting down the people scamming a few bob off the dole, how about putting the same effort into collecting from corporate tax dodgers.
Give the pensioners their money. Its shit being old and we all will be some day.

Both of these things can be true at the same time though, which is presumably why the government is reviewing it. It cannot be right that very wealthy pensioners receive it, or that very poor pensioners do not receive it.

I think they are just adjusting the minimum which was too low. Seems fair enough as the minimum limit was causing some poorer pensioners problems. Sounds like the richer pensioners still won't get it.