To resent the U-turn on winter fuel allowance?

[BlueEyedStarling]

Perhaps I'm existing in a bubble, but all of the pensioners I know, are pretty well off, or comfortable, at least. I live and have older family in the South East, but my dad and his elderly partner, live in the North. Literally, all of them say they dont need the WFA, but happily accept it regardless and shouted from the rooftops when it was taken away from them. Just how long can the working age population keep paying for this increasing, triple-lock section of society who are, as a whole, the wealthiest amongst us? Personally, we fell through the gaps of being able to receive any child benefit (only just!), but have always been willing to accept that we didn't need it and therefore shouldn't have it. Is it that our middle-aged generation just dont shout as loudly about things that affect us? I do want to add that I am very aware that there are many pensioners who should be in receipt of the WFA and that the cut off was too low. Also, that our pensioners fair pretty badly in comparison to much of Europe. It seems criminal that it can't be means tested to benefit those who really do need it.

The things you mention weren't in place when people of my age entered the work place, or not until later. Women were often dependent on their husbands' pensions. I was a single parent in the days when this was not usual. Most women stayed in bad marriages becasue there was no financial way out - no money, nowhere to live. I used all my money to support myself and my son. There was nothing left over. I now have my state pension and a small work pension.

And I still work and pay tax, so don't start lecturing me on what I should or shouldn't be doing. It was the campaigning women of my generation did gave women who were left to bring their children up by themselves a way of doing that. It is women of my generation who campaigned to support women who faced domestic violence and campaigned to change the law that said rape could not occur in marriage. It was women of my generation who campaigned to get better access to contraception and abortion.

Without that, change would not have happened, and the way things are looking now, many of thise changes could be reversed. I feel very sorry for the financial difficulties too many families are facing today, but stop blaming the previous generations and start looking at who has pocketed the considerable wealth of this country that should be coming to all of us, but is vanishing into well-lined pockets.

I'm sure it's been said before, but why not link it with tax code so those with standard rate tax code get it and not those with a higher tax code.

Because the WFA is a small, one-off payment. Benefits are higher relatively speakign and are paid out monthly. Therefore, it is costly to means-test it. People who don't need it should opt out but in my experience, the wealthier you are, the meaner you are. In the years when my earnings are good, I donate it. In the lean years, I use it to pay my heating bills.

They could possibly include it in the tax code which means those pensioners who pay tax whould be taxed on it up to a point when the whole lot went. I'm not sure how pricey that would be. It might mean that all in receipt of the WFA would have to submit a tax return each year which is a recipe for an expensive omnishambles.

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Because it would save barely anything and people like me would still get it. There are very few pensioners with incomes over £50k.

Pensioners whose only income is their state pension are below the tax threshold so they’d continue to miss out on WFA. They are already missing out on WFA because if they receive their state pension in full they are not eligible for pension credit despite an annual income of less than £12k.

No they wouldn’t. @GrouachMacbeth is proposing that the threshold for WFA is at the threshold for higher rate income tax so every pensioner, ie virtually all of us, would receive it. Very few pensioners have incomes of £50k+.

There's well over a million. And climbing as tax brackets remain stagnant. It would cost next to nothing to administer and would save hundreds of millions of £s. There's no reason not to do it.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

There’s every reason not to do it, it means far too many people who don’t need it have it restored. The savings would be so minimal they might as well make it a universal benefit again.

My mother in law will be pleased. She has done nothing but moan that they took away the money she uses for chemicals for her pool.

So you expected to be able to live off the state pension alone when you retired? Madness.

You've no idea, have you?

No she didn’t. Try reading:

I now have my state pension and a small work pension

Having said that it’s all some people, particularly women, have not through madness but because of a lifetime of low pay. Do you think people choose poverty?

You have no idea, do you? I entered the workplace in the 60s. No decent work pensions in those days, not for women. And as I already told you, as a single mother who didn't get a farthing off her ex (he was abusive, there were no systems in place then to protect me and my son) I didn't have the finances for the luxury of a pension.

In fact, like most women, I'm pretty capable and did quite well self-employed, so I do have a financial cushion - but I prefer to work to keep a safety net in place. Tbh, I probably would even if I didn't need that. I enjoy what I do.

But I know of two women of my age who are doing just that mad thing - living off the state pension, because their lives didn't give them any other option.

I think the u-turn is ridiculous too. It's time to prioritise the young and stop giving the elderly everything.

The young were shafted by covid and Brexit, and now they've got to pay for well off pensioners' heating again. If you get pension credit, you get the extra money so the very poor pensioners still get it.

What U turn? All Reeves has said is that eligibility is to be widened, it’s still going to be means tested.

How can you be shafted by covid? Every man and his dog were affected, in any case.

Why do so many people feel they can only do the "good thing" they want to if there's a system in place so that others also do it?

From you, that wouldn't donate the WFP without a scheme in place, to the Patriotic Millionaires who keep going on about how they should be taxed more.

It comes across as virtue signalling - if it's the right thing to do, just do it - regardless of whether others do it.
Write a cheque to HMRC. Whether you tell anyone about it, that's your business.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/voluntary-payments-donations-to-government

On the wider topic, I find it interesting how people can always cast about and find other people who have "too much money", or "more money than they need" - when realistically nobody really can see the truth of others finances.

Personally I've never had it. I'm lucky enough not to need it. Others are not so fortunate. I do find it abhorrent though that anyone on benefits can have more money than someone who "already earns enough" to be ineligible.

3 million people were "shafted" by being excluded from the support schemes.

Write a cheque to HMRC.

I know I’m ancient but I haven’t written a cheque for about 20 years!

All benefits should be means tested.All of them, including Child Benefit.

Meanwhile, if your people don't need it, they can refuse it. I know people used to do that. Plenty of people I worked with, living in London, two or more children, refused CB because they could manage (just about) without it. Don't see a lot of that going on either.

Everyone is out for as much as they can get these days.

For most types of tax, HMRC don't accept cheques anymore anyway!

I agree. We need to lose this "entitlement" mentality. All financial benefits should be based on NEED only, whether disability benefits, state pension, bus passes, etc. Those with high incomes/high assets should be means tested out of all state benefits. Just initially set the threshold pretty high, say £100k of income or £1m of assets to prevent the sad faces in the Daily Mail! Don't change the limit over time, so "fiscal drag" will effectively reduce the "real" thresholds over the years.

My children have got six sets of grandparents
All of which did not need the winter fuel allowance and spent it on crap