Immigration - can someone please explain it to me in simple terms?

[Illbeinthehottub]

So for as long as I can remember I’ve heard that there is a problem with immigration in the UK. There are headlines about it daily and it’s always an issue for government. It’s a big part of what Brexit was about.

I don’t personally understand all about it, what is the issue, is it simply than people feel immigration is putting additional pressure on services?

I’ve just seen another headline saying that Kier Starmer has lost control of the borders.

Conservatives were in power for 13 years, presumably immigration was still unacceptable to people. Now people are unhappy with Labour.

Can someone who understands explain to me a) what is the problem with immigration b) why hasn’t any government been able to have an acceptable policy that works c) is immigration just something for people to whinge about?

The issue with immigration is the many, many people who take from the system but will probably never contribute. The huge cultural shift in many areas, the immense health needs many people arrive with. Screening for disease etc on arrival is a huge cost. Then there's education, housing & ongoing healthcare on top of this. We can't afford it. I have huge sympathy for people in desperate need & I would move heaven & earth to help my child, so I do understand it, but we don't have enough resources to let it continue unchecked. Interestingly, near me we have a huge Romanian/Slovakian population, crammed into homes with multiple children & none of the females seem to work, the men seem to work sporadically but very, very few speak English. They have a whole host of health issues & cleanliness issues in the general area means rats are running rampant. They also have lots of children living in not great conditions so aren't living the high life, but they still are taking and not contributing. They are here legally, with access to public funds & some of them spend months at a time back in Romania whilst still having their rent, council tax etc paid for and claiming benefits. I'm not sure what the answer is though, obviously these children are in the local school & settled here.

This poem explains it far better than I could.

If illegal immigration was easy to solve, it would have been solved. It’s turned into a huge organised crime syndicate which is going to be very difficult to resolve in a way that also respects people’s human rights. Other European countries are now starting to talk about Rwanda type agreements as it’s not just a U.K. problem, it’s a Europe problem.

Migration is only going to escalate as climate change ramps up and land disappears and countries become inhabitable through extreme weather.

I think unfortunately Reform will get in as I have never heard so many normal, standard people around me talk about voting for them, as I have recently. This has a real Brexit feel about it where people operating in a bubble feel quite sure they could t possibly get it and yet if you believe the word of the average person in the street you’d recognise the support is there.

How is reform planning on solving the small boat issue? I have no idea. I’m assuming something deeply unpalatable that will get us caught up in a legal fight for years with thousands of human right lawyers and charities.

'

"Mathematics" By Hollie McNish is an uncompromising spoken word piece based on her own personal experiences of racism.

The full poem reads:

He says “those god damn Pakistanis and their goddamn corner shops
Built a shop on every corner took our British workers jobs
He says those Goddamn Chinese and their goddamn china shops
I tell him they’re from Vietnam but he doesn’t give a toss
I ask him what was there before that damn Japan mans shop
He stares at me and dreams a scene of British workers jobs
Of full time full employment before the Goddamn boats all came
Where everybody went to work full time every day
A British Business stood their first he claims before the Irish came
Now British people lost their jobs and bloody Turkish are there to blame
I ask him how he knows that fact he says because it’s true
I ask him how he knows the fact he says he read it in the news
Everytime a Somalian comes here they take a job from us
The mathematics one for one, from us to them it just adds up
He bites his cake and sips is brew and says again he knows the spot
The Goddamn Carribeans came and now good folk here don’t have jobs
I ask him what was there before the goddamn Persian curtain shop
I show him architectures plans of empty goddamn plots of land
I show him the historic maps
A bit of sand, a barren land
There was no goddamn shop before those Pakistanis came and planned
Man
I’m sick of crappy mathematics
Cos I love a bit of sums
I spent three years into economics
And I geek out over calculus
And when I meet these paper claims
That one of every new that came
Takes away ones daily wage
I desperately want to scream
“Your maths is stuck in primary”
Cos one who comes here also spends
And one who comes here also lends
And some who comes here also tend
To set up work which employs them
And all your balance sheets and trends
Work with numbers not with men
And all your goddamn heated talk
Ignores the trade the Polish brought
Ignores the men they gave work to
Not plumbing jobs but further too
Ignores the ones they buy stock from
Accountants, builders, on and on
And I know it’s nice to have someone
To blame our lack of jobs upon
But immigrations not as plain
Despite the sums inside your brain
As one for one, as him or you
As if he goes, they’ll employ you
Cos sometimes one that comes makes two
And sometimes one can add three more
And sometimes two times two is much much more
Than four
And most times immigrants bring more
Than minuses.

❤️❤️❤️

We need controlled immigration - big difference.

Blanket statements of we need “foreign workers” (not my language) is very over-simplistic. In some sectors, yes. In others, we really don’t. Irrespective of AI, software engineering has seen a massive wage reduction due to the influx of overseas workers in the UK (as well as offshoring but that’s another thread). There are multiple professional roles facing similar.

I favour a points based system.

Are you under the impression that we just hand out visas to anyone who wants them?

Yes this is the problem

also why aren’t they being pressurised to work and pay tax.

they are economic migrants so why does GB have to pay for them

We also shouldn't just blatantly look at the economy. GDP number go up isn't the only thing to look at. We need to look at societal and cultural impact.

No.

Are you under the impression this hasn’t been an observed dynamic in several sectors for years?

We have addressed this already a nurse doesn't earn that well. Factor in 2 or 3 kids and the government may well step in and help (UC). It's not just that it's a drain on resources we simply don't have!

I'm not under the impression that we blindly hand out visas to anyone who applies. We do in fact control who gets a visa.

Like go to Whitechapel and Bethnal Green and you'll understand what I mean

So many roles in this country are filled by overseas talent and hard working people. This country would be even more fucked if it weren’t for “the foreigners”.
Finger pointing is an easy blame game.

veg and fruit picking is often live in work
It is poorer ppl who are often expected to do this work who in a lot of cases live in social housing. When you rent social housing you are actually supposed to live in it Now do i really need to start linking threads where busybody MNers have said that Mr Bloggs down the road hasnt lived in his SH flat for weeks so "should i report it as abandoned" or can you figure out the rest!!!

We need immigrants who earn a good wage and contribute to our economy through paying taxation and also pay a contribution towards their NHS use. These immigrants have to have decent English and are given a government share code and usually take private housing which they pay for from working. We don't need illegal immigrants coming over on rubber boats, like 1200 did today. These immigrants ar a drain on our society. The taxi payer has to pay to put them in 4* hotels, feed them and clothe them. They can stay anytime up to about a year before being processed because there is a huge backlog and not enough people who do the processing. Most of these illegal immigrants get to stay because they say they are Christian, gay or some other reason and sending them back may breach their human rights. Once they are settled their family comes over and they claim child benefit for children. If they do this for 10 years it qualifies them to claim state pension without ever having paid in a single penny. In the meantime once they are told they can stay they can claim full UC and housing benefit. These illegal immigrants are not vetted for crimes committed in their country of origin. Many are criminals. The problem arises when instead of being dispersed around the country they are placed in large concentrated groups often outnumbering the local communities who find them threatening and feel they can't go out at night. In these areas with a high concentration of immigrants it's hard to get GP appointments, schools are over full of DC who can't really speak English meaning it is harder for local DC to learn.

Good lord! Op there’s very little fact in here and a whole load of bs

Not really

it was so much better before Mr Blair came into power

most of the people I know who don’t like immigrants and think they are a major issue, are poorly educated In the sense they have both limited critical thinking skills and also limited interest in the world around them outside of their own immediate circle.

Empathy bypass is also a characteristic of the ‘Ban the Boats’ people I know

@caringcarer

We need immigrants who earn a good wage and contribute to our economy through paying taxation and also pay a contribution towards their NHS use.

The vast majority of immigrants are working or studying.

We don't need illegal immigrants coming over on rubber boats, like 1200 did today.

Asylum seekers, not illegal immigrants, make up a tiny percentage of immigrants in the UK. Around 6%.

These immigrants ar a drain on our society. The taxi payer has to pay to put them in 4 hotels, feed them and clothe them*.

There's no law saying that asylum seekers have to be put up in 4 star hotels. We don't clothe them. They get a small weekly stipend.

They can stay anytime up to about a year before being processed because there is a huge backlog and not enough people who do the processing.

They may be here a lot longer being processed as the backlog is about 40k.

Most of these illegal immigrants get to stay because they say they are Christian, gay or some other reason and sending them back may breach their human rights.

They're not illegal immigrants, they're asylum seekers. If they are given refugee status, which 70% are, it's because they have a well founded fear of persecution.

These illegal immigrants are not vetted for crimes committed in their country of origin. Many are criminals.

They're not illegal immigrants, they're asylum seekers and could you provide evidence that many are criminals?

The problem arises when instead of being dispersed around the country they are placed in large concentrated groups often outnumbering the local communities who find them threatening and feel they can't go out at night.

It's government policy to disperse asylum seekers around the UK. Where are asylum seekers living where they are the majority of the population?

In these areas with a high concentration of immigrants it's hard to get GP appointments, schools are over full of DC who can't really speak English meaning it is harder for local DC to learn.

Which areas? The majority of asylum seekers on boats are single men so how can they have children in local schools? You sound very confused.

I'm a GP. Every day I have multiple consultations with people who have lived in the UK for decades and speak no English, with no medical reason preventing them from learning.

That's the problem. The complete lack of integration.

While those who criticise those very people certainly don't possess critical thinking skills. Just a shed load of labels.

Yes we certainly grateful for the opportunities, we wouldn't be here otherwise, however WE are not the source of your problems either. Privatisation, exporting all industrial activities, a huge history of being colonial masters, decline in population. Therein lies some of the problems and as long birth rate remains in decline you will always be in need of immigrants.

Well said. It's certainly not some want to hear, especially from an educated person.

Irish, Caribbean, Ugandan. Somali, Iraqis, Afghani’s. Wonderful people.

But now? Organised crime, destabilising the country.