Stepchild (3) saying concerning things about her mum

[safezone]

I’ve been in my stepchild’s life for 2 years, she is with us “technically” 50% as per the court order, but she is actually here a lot more because her mum asks my partner to have her extra nights if she is away for the weekend or wants a break. We’ve always been totally fine with this. Recently her mum has been calling my partner late at night (he doesn’t answer) and then will send a text saying that her daughter is acting up and won’t sleep. Partner has asked her to contact him only in an emergency as he can’t parent over the phone.

She came to us on Saturday morning and her mum was saying she had been “a nightmare”, hitting her and screaming. Stepchild has been fine here but said to me last night when we were playing “mummy was shouting and screaming and crying”. I said “oh no that’s not good” and she said “she was so loud”. I told my partner and I’m concerned as is he.

I do think she struggles - DSD has come here in dirty clothes, nappies (she is toilet trained), dirty finger nails and tatted hair before. Dsd has also imitated her mummy being sick when she was hungover.

im really concerned about her, but I am also aware it’s not my place at all to say anything or do anything.

I don’t have kids - is this normal? Should kids be exposed to screaming and parents crying? Partner is at his wits end but is scared she will make things harder for him if he says anything. there are no tantrums here so I don’t know how it is for her. I just don’t want dsd to be scared or anxious

Do you or DH know mum quite well? Do you have a sense of what might be behind the struggles you describe?

You sound like a lovely caring stepmum!

I think you should just monitor the situation going forward. Its entirely possible that sd was acting out and doing what her mum said, and her mum lost her cool and was crying and raising her voice (not ideal obviously but everyones human). Its also possible that her mum said that to excuse her own poor behaviour. Keep an eye, keep on being a source of support and stability for your sd, and if youre able, being able to take her when her mum needs extra help is a great idea.

What does your partner think about whats going on?

DH was never in a relationship with her mum but he is cordial with her. He is frightened that if anything is mentioned her mum will stop contact with him (she has threatened this before). DSD mum seems like an okay person, but she has refused to meet me.

Im not sure what could be behind this - she seems to struggle (no judgement at all, like I said I have no kids) with her generally

At 3 yo its hard to gage how reliable the story is. At 3 my DD would repeat the same stories over and over (about a pet scratching her). It happened once, but where she would retell the story to the same people, it sounded like we had this devil cat who only existed to torture DD.

I'd probably try and observe the mum with the daughter a bit and see how she's reacting to her. Is she snappy, does she set firm but fair boundaries, does she fly off the handle quickly over small things.

However, please don't compare her at yours to her at home. There are 2 of you to parent her at your house and it could be that she just really chooses to act up for her mum.

Is there a court order in place securing your DH visitation? If so, she wouldn't be able to just pull her daughters visits from him without breaking that order.

Also it sounds like she really needs support, so it wouldn't be in her best interests to get rid of the person helping her with her DD 50% of the time.

Thanks for this perspective. I agree, it’s hard to know if it’s exaggerated.

She is married so there are 2 parents at her house too.

Sometimes kids will only play up for one parent and be absolutely fine with the other, it doesn't necessarily mean anything untoward is happening, but some of the things you've noticed do sound concerning. I'd keep a close eye for now because none of it sounds serious enough for social services and if you were to raise it she could become hostile towards you.

Thanks everyone. what should I be saying when she tells me mummy was crying or screaming? I don’t want to invalidate but also don’t want to stir the pot (so to speak). I’m worried about saying the wrong thing.

She doesn’t say it as much to DH, but she used to in the past

Firstly your dp needs a proper legal agreement in place so no threats can be made. Secondly once in place he needs to speak, maybe with mediation in place, with her mum and find out if mum would prefer to change the domicile so she lives with you if she’s no coping, make it clear it’s not about maintenance but what is best for the child. So often 50/50 is to avoid maintenance. It may be mum really isn’t coping

dirty clothes and matted hair sound terrible

What if the child is right though? There are already signs of neglect.

This is how abuse gets ignored. It’s explained away. Either scenario could be true so it’s imperative that it’s looked into.

What do you say to her when she tells you these things?

My son used to say similar about me at that age to his dad and his girlfriend. But they would egg him on, give him lots of attention, talk about it with him, give him sympathy. It wasn’t true. When I talked it through with his dad, and he stopped engaging so much when ds would tell him things it stopped. Ds was getting so much attention when he told his dad bad things about me, it snowballed.

I am not saying it’s not true in your case - but sometimes children will keep saying the things they think you want to hear, and say it more to please the other parent, especially if there has been any tension between parents.

I just say “oh no that’s scary” and then change the conversation or redirect to play. She does send DH videos of DSD having “tantrums” which I think is a little odd. A week or so ago she rang at 11pm to say she was struggling to get her to sleep. He didn’t answer but she text him the morning after. My DH doesn’t understand why she does this - she doesn’t bother contacting when she is with us.

Would she meet up with him to discuss? It sounds like she’s struggling and asking for help via the videos.

I’ve always found that meeting in person is better for these sort of things.

Would he be able to suggest the two of them meet?

My DH is reluctant to meet with her. He thinks she is pushing boundaries anyway - there was trouble when we got married because she refused to meet me or acknowledge me at all, even though she is married too. At the beginning she wanted a relationship with DH but he didn’t want to. So he’s always said he doesn’t want contact with her beyond drop offs and emergencies. He refuses to do anything with her eg., go to pre school assemblies etc. which I don’t particularly agree with but that’s his choice.

I would say note down anything you notice, or SD says that concerns you, and take photos. This is so if anything happens where you need to action, you have a log of your concerns and photo evidence.

I think you'd be best to raise it with nursery and ask them to support mum.

He needs to put that aside for the sake of this child. It isn’t about him and what he wants. The mother of his child is struggling, he needs to put his child first.

She didn’t have to meet you if she didn’t want to. You may be in a relationship with her child’s father, but he’s the one she needs to have a good relationship with and vice versa.

Your husband is making his life and his child’s like so much harder with this. It’s so much easier for the child when their parents get on and help each other out, meet and talk, do things together with the child, go to school events together. I speak from experience.

Your husband needs to put his daughter first.

This is a tricky one, as a lot of this could be a sign of something more, or could happen in an otherwise good home, on a particularly bad day.

It's totally understandable (though not ideal) to lose your temper and shout at a 3yo who's tantruming and hitting. Crying in front of a child when overwhelmed or possibly if feeling guilty about the shouting, I also understand (again not good, but we all have limits). Your partner could gently offer more suport, but be careful not to be perceived as criticising.

In term of replying if the child mentions it, I'd explain that we all get big feelings sometimes, that adults should try to express those feeling's in a way that isn't scary to her, but unfortunately the feeling must have got too big and mummy didn't manage to do that this time.

The matted hair and dirty cloths would be more of a concern for me, though would really depend how often and to what extent. If my kids go in the garden for 10 minutes while I pack the bag to go out, by the time we're ready to go they could look like they haven't been washed for a week. Or some day's I don't brush DD's hair until just before we go out, so if anyone called round in the morning she would look a bit scruffy in yesterday's plaits. I can kind of see as a one off, if they were rushing to get ready for hand over, the mum might have left the hair for dad to do when she got there, as the better option to being late. I guess it depends if it's 'hasn't been brushed since yesterday' level of matted or 'hasn't been brushed since last week'.

Was DSD still awake at 11pm or was that when she sent the video? Can you find out when it was actually taken.

Things I’d be concerned about:

DSD saying the shouting, screaming and crying was “so loud”. How often does that happen?
DSD imitating someone being sick (I think I may have barfed the next day a couple of times in my life and that was when I was young and still drank. That’s. Lot of booze to ingest. Where are the kids when that’s happening?).
Being put in nappies despite being toilet trained (why do that unless you’re not going to be available to help the child go to the toilet).
DSD not displaying any of the behaviours described by mum when she’s at yours.
Matted hair, dirty finger nails etc. My DC generally look like Stig of the Dump but it’s “new” dirt if that makes sense? They are covered in lunch from a couple of hours ago or they’re fresh grass stains. They wear clean, fresh clothes every day (then trash them as the day goes on).
Does DSD seem tired when she comes to you? Hungry? Any unusual bruises? What’s her complexion like? Rosy cheeks with no dark circles under her eyes? (Many kids who get enough sleep can have dark circles so it’s a potential piece of the puzzle rather than a conclusive indicator of something, as are most of the things I’ve mentioned).

Are there other siblings? Taking a massive leap to a probably wrong but not entirely impossible conclusion, I’d say mum has a drinking problem that is resulting in neglect and frequent angry outbursts which is also impacting her ability to parent well.

Take a look at the whole picture, not just individual events. When mum is calling your DH, is DSD still awake. What were the circumstances around the tantrum video ie why was she tantruming?

As a total outsider who has no experience at all of shared child care something doesn’t sit right with me about her time at mums. I might be barking up the wrong tree though, so don’t be afraid to shout me down.
If I’ve read what you say correctly mum is living with her husband so she’s not (or shouldn’t be) parenting the little girl on her own. Surely it’s him who should be supporting her when the little girl won’t settle and mum is upset. Perhaps I’m adding up 2 and 2 to make 5 here but it could well be that all is not well in the marriage and he is not such a caring step parent as you are. Do they have children together?
Irrespective of what the little girl has said to you about mummy crying the fact that she has sometimes arrived with you unkempt is yet another sign to me that all is not well when she’s with her.
As to what can be done about it - hopefully others will be able to guide you in a direction that OH would be happy to take.
As I see it the little girl is lucky that her dad has a supportive partner who cares about her wellbeing

I was all ready to tell you to take it with a pinch of salt from the title alone.
My son told my mum once that I screamed at him, and told her to have a word with me 🙄. She couldn't hide her surprise and said "really?!" And he said "well she shouted" and that became "she told me off".... I had told him not to give out all the food in his lunch box because it always meant he was hungry in the afternoon and I don't mind spending money on feeding him but it's not for everyone else. 🤷‍♀️ It wasn't even a cross tone!

But the rest is concerning. I think I would ask him to speak to nursery about the physical appearance if he doesn't think she would react well to hearing from him directly. If he says he is concerned about how she is coping and wants to make sure she is supported, they should keep an extra close eye on things and offer early help if appropriate.

I think dad needs to rethink contact iwth nursery/school. He needs to have an active role with the staff to make sure communication is clear. But mainly, because kids remember who showed up to those special days. The sports days, nursery graduation and everything else. And I think you sound like a caring mum so you should go too. He might just need that support.
I would speak to nursery and say about the worries, see if they have any. At the least they will log the conversation. I would also just keep having little one extra everytime it is offered. Eventually dad might be able to say, 'oh I'm happy having her every tuesday' or whatever it may be. Sounds like such a difficult situation.
I do think dad meeting with mum to discuss the videos that have been sent is important. Mum is reaching out for help, worth trying it as she initiated.

Thanks everyone, lots to think about.

DH under no circumstances would do anything joint with DSDs mum. He’s had to draw those boundaries because of past behaviour (too long to mention, but she has in the past been very demanding and overbearing to the point with my MIL had to tell her to stop), and won’t do anything with her outside of being amicable in front her their daughter. Eg., she rang my DH saying she thought her DH was cheating when we first got married - DH couldn’t believe she was telling him and told her he didn’t want to speak about anything other than DSD.

The video was taken at 11pm, Dsd was aware of the video being taken which I think is shocking. My DH’s argument is that she shouldn’t just call him when she can’t do “basic parenting”, especially during the evenings when it seems like an emergency but isn’t. We have made it more than clear to DSDs mum that she is always welcome here, but we know she keeps dropping her off at her sisters, mums or neighbours overnight if she is out drinking. I don’t think she’s an alcoholic but definitely prioritises a night out inside of being with DSD.

DH is going to speak to nursery and to mum to say DSD was upset because of shouting and to ask if she needs us to have her here more.

Also, DSD mum has missed me off forms for school intentionally - listing everyone who can pick her up (DH, her, both grandparents and her sister and husband!) but not me. She has said that they will have to sit together for school assemblies etc., but DH has said no, he will go but not with her. I get the impression she will not want me at these things which on one had I get, but, me and DH will be having a baby soon - we are a family and that will be DSD’s sibling. There’s no animosity from my side but I need to tread carefully because I am not DSDs mum, but I do care about her and want her happy and healthy