Teacher pay

[Maddie05]

Seeing a lot online at the moment about teacher pay increases being unreasonable. I think teachers do a lot in society and a lot of what is expected of teachers appears to be out with their paid hours.

Am I being unreasonable to think they deserve a pay rise in like with inflation?
(FULL DISCLOSURE - I am not a teacher but I have children in a school and I volunteer on a PTA)

We don't!

Sorry, I didnt see the original message you're replying to. Is someone claiming that they manage to mark all their mock exams in 3 PPA slots? As if! I'm an experienced GCSE and A Level examiner, and even I couldn't get through that many papers that quickly (even with 0 written feedback!).

@surreygirl1987 yes, a previous poster said they are an English teacher who never takes work home. I want to know how they do that !

I do know some shit teachers who don't do the job well and never seem to take work home. But actually the school struggles with getting rid of them (and also who would replace them?!). There are complaints though, and there are requests from parents to not put their children in that teacher's classes. On one hand, I kind of admire him for standing firm on the workload issue. But on the other hand, I care about my career and I don't want to be terrible at my job. It's lose-lose! (I say this having spent more than 5 hours today working!).

I'd love to know too! I've worked at 3 different schools, am a Head of Department, have a PhD in Education, have researched workload, and have found a way of doing that (without not doing the job properly anyway) so very intrigued!

I assumed she maybe did very long days in school but that didn't seem to go with the 3 kids unless it was a high earning partner/nanny set up.

I'm in my 50s and I have to take work home, even if simply to be able to do it when I'm vaguely awake. Plus finding a peaceful place to work in most schools is very hard.

In my case because I got higher up the pay scale and the school couldn't afford me so I was 'encouraged' to leave by giving me a terrible timetable and tactics like that.

To be honest I do enjoy FE more now because I am lucky enough to be in a department with relative freedom and sensible managers, and it feels more like teaching in the early 2000s again!

To be fair, I used to do that (very long days in school). I worked in a boarding school, so it was pretty normal to be in your classroom past 9pm. So I guess 'technically' I wasnt taking work home... but was routinely working 12+ hour days. I've got kids now so that's impossible - now I get my work done when they've gone to bed. It's pretty rubbish, but I do love teaching and I love my subject, so I'll keep at it. When I can afford to, I'll go part time (but probably work full time hours) to manage the workload. I'd love to do a 0.6 timetable over 5 days and wouldn't mind being in school full time if the job was manageable! I think I'd enjoy it much more.

Fucking PE teachers who end up as SLT and have never taught a full core subject timetable.

Wow, we are paid £26-34ish k at our place!

Hurray for the Barnett formula eh?!

I tend to find that teachers who say that they don't take work home get into school at 7am and do loads then, and leave late, where I get in later due to child drop-offs, leave earlier for child pick-ups, then crack open my laptop at 9pm once everyone's in bed.

Yes I do this too. I would say 2 hours every night but during exam time when there is marking it can be more than 2 hours.

i work in a private school (in Australia) though pay issues are same here. My pay in the private school is must less but higher workload and expectations especially for the senior kids. But also less behavioural issues.

our state schools have similar problems with attracting and retaining staff. Pay if just 1 part of it. Unfortunately to fill the gap our government is allowing students to start teaching while they are still studying - so not even fully qualified. I know of one who is leaving the profession before he’s even finished the degree, as putting in unqualified unprepared people just leads to faster burn out.

I arrive at 7.30 and tend to leave at 6 most days. So I don't take much home. Except at exam time. Or report time.

They are given books without words helps develop comprehension. They are used throughout school no matter what reading age. So your kids do the same work but not the same lesson. They have to achieve the same objectives but are not taught the same lesson. Can you predict how they are being taught?

Why on earth does your school have all the exams and all the reports at the same time?? That is absolutely bonkers. I have been teaching 20+ years and never seen it done like that.

172 maths papers (assuming a calc and non-calc) only equals 86 children.

86 children is only 3 classes. 3 small classes at that!

FE is the Cinderella sector. Massively underfunded with no parity re pay or standing. Yes, the pay is awful but also, as a random example, London parking allowances are made for teachers at schools of primary, secondary and 6th form but not those who teach in FE.
Alongside teaching mainstream vocational studies, so desperately needed in a society crying out for a skilled workforce, FE teaches young people and adults who have often been through harrowing circumstances in their previous schooling years and for whom this second chance at education is pivotal. The pastoral burden and time given to supporting learners emotionally and practically in this sector is immense and often overwhelming. FE teachers deal with trauma, homelessness and desperation on a daily basis.
FE teachers don’t have the appreciation of parents or the prestige of HE; as neither fish nor fowl they have been excluded from any sector pay rise for a over a decade yet cope with a massive need. About time they were included in the conversation.

Secondary teachers definitely do. Certainly if they teach English.

Obviously I can't predict the precise words they use, but the resources are the same. I can predict which presentations they use, the contents of their workbooks etc are identical. When I know my youngest is going to miss a day (ie medical appointments), I confirm with the teacher what they are doing the following day and 90% of the time I'm right. It's so predictable that when my kid vomited (but was fine in herself) I picked her up, and we continued the next slide from the presentation they were going through 😂. I mean, it makes it easy for me, and there's no point in reinventing the wheel, but I'm not going to pretend that there's extensive planning used here. It's just recycled.

It's crystal clear from 4 years in the school that there is zero differentiation. My child actually lost maths knowledge in the first 2 years (which destroyed the early interest she had in the subject), because the work was so easy. She literally went backwards. But in areas where she struggles, they plough on leaving her behind.

This says it really well. Currently awake but no point trying to sleep as I'll be up in half an hour as I'll be at school by 7.00. I expect to be there until 6 pm and probably to do another hour or so on the laptop once I get home.
For those who think that teaching is easy money do come and join us, there are plenty of jobs due to the recruitment and retention difficulties.

Absolutely this.

You can't predict that the resources they use are the same. What you mean is the worksheet they complete is the same. Typically because they may use a scheme like White Rose Maths but the resources will change as they reflect on if they could improve it or use different resources and also reflect on what worked and what didn't.

Differentiation is in the past. That is not used any longer. I'm sure you know why? Adaptive teaching is used now. Something you say is not yet you do not know what it is. Your child cannot lose maths knowledge unless it was not secure. The work is set to get more difficult as the lesson progresses but you know that right? Clearly your child wasn't secure and maybe could get an answer but couldn't understand what the concept was if they do not understand it now.

Sounds like you have an issue with the school. Maybe remove the children and either homeschool or find another school. Sounds like you have no respect for teachers.

I completely support the belief that teacher pay rises should be centrally funded by the government and not pull from the already underfunded school budgets directly. If not, it's only the children that will suffer, and school is hardly a great environment for most of them as it is.

I do wonder, is there a disparity in pay and conditions between primary and secondary teachers? There has been a lot of talk about secondary teachers doing marking (classwork, homework, exams) in their own time. Due to the age of children, these pieces of work must be much more extended and complex than the primary marking. They will also cover multiple year groups, whereas a primary teacher will usually be marking one year group, much shorter pieces of work etc. Do secondary teachers feel this disparity and think they should be paid more?

Most of my extended family are primary school teachers. They talk about some marking in their non-working hours but it is absolutely nothing like the hours mentioned here. Not even vaguely. I know that's anecdotal, but it's multiple teachers based over 4 different primary schools so not something I can dismiss in my own mind.

Although changed, pensions are still generous and not very well appreciated or understood. Would it be better to reduce pension and put this money upfront and fund better salary increases this way?

Finally, do teachers sometimes feel that colleagues could be supporting each other more? Like a previous poster, I've had multiple children go through the same primary school. They teach the same thing to each one as they go through the year group. I understand that there will be some changes and tweaks based on the composition of the class abilities for that particular year group, and that teachers often change to teaching a new year group each September. But surely you shouldn't be re-writing the class plans again from scratch?! Shouldn't the teacher who taught the year group previously be handing over their plans from the year before so that they can be adapted?? Perhaps teachers aren't supporting one another enough if this really is the case.

Of course it's possible to lose knowledge - what a silly comment! I don't remember everything from my degree for example. She absolutely lost knowledge because she wasn't practicing what she'd learned. We gain and lose knowledge every day.

The fact that you are more concerned with respect for teachers than a little girl who loved numbers, loved maths, could do (simple) sums in her head, and that spark of joy and interest got snuffed out because they couldn't meet her where she was academically, is sad.

There was another girl in her class who LOST the ability to read in reception.

I have no issue with respect for teachers, and her school teachers clearly work hard in terms of delivering a curriculum, marking and behavioural management. I'm just saying IMO the planning aspect is overblown. That's fine that you disagree.

I am considering moving them tbh, it's a toss up between them staying in a school that's clearly got problems (almost a total lack of Sen support, declining academic standards, undersubscribed for the first time in a decade), and staying where they are happy.

But this is all for another thread really. I support inflation level pay rises for everyone, otherwise it's a pay cut. I'd like to get one myself!