Teacher pay

[Maddie05]

Seeing a lot online at the moment about teacher pay increases being unreasonable. I think teachers do a lot in society and a lot of what is expected of teachers appears to be out with their paid hours.

Am I being unreasonable to think they deserve a pay rise in like with inflation?
(FULL DISCLOSURE - I am not a teacher but I have children in a school and I volunteer on a PTA)

https://www.sec-ed.co.uk/content/news/more-than-52-hours-a-week-teacher-workload-continues-to-rise/

Then where do these facts and figures come from? As opposed to just, you know, your mates as a random person on MN.

I wish people would stop saying teachers aren't paid for the holidays.

Teachers are paid for 195 days/1265 hours per year. This is directed time. There is also non-directed time which is when a lot of planning/marking etc is done. This may be done at weekends, evenings or holidays. This is on top of the 195 days.

Teachers' holiday entitlement is 5-6 weeks, the same as everyone else.

As a teacher in London I see the impact teachers wages have on recruitment and it is not positive. It is fine for teachers whilst they are happy to house share, but if you want your own space, rented or owned, then the only option is to move away. Even shared ownership is now getting out of reach. Every year we lose staff who move out of London purely because of finances, either to buy a first home, or to swap a tiny flat for a good sized house. Even on a headteachers salary it is difficult to afford more than a flat.

So basically they just asked the teachers and we just accept their word as fact?

Think it’s an easy job ? Well paid and with loads of holidays ? Please come join us as there are so few of us left.

Whereas what you say is accurate and reliable?

I don't know what your support staff do but myself and others are arrive at 8.15 at the latest and leave at 4 at the earliest. We are paid buttons with no chance to go up to another scale once at the end of ours. The pro rata is what makes the wage untenable. I do cover so you can guess why the shit pay rankles even more than it does for you. It's not a race to the bottom but it sucks to be "delivering content" on paltry wages.

When do you mark all the year 10 and 11 GCSE mock exams?

You have word for word explained that teachers are not paid for their holidays! Thanks for explaining it so clearly 😆

The problem is that we have a clause in our contracts that states 'and any other reasonable additional duties.' As another poster has mentioned, with the collapse of all other services, and the police taking a very hands off approach to any criminal offence committed on school property, these additional duties can get pretty wild.

Pretty much every job I've had comes with that clause, and most involved evening/weekend work, with far less 'holidays'.

Yes teachers work hard, but so do many of us, without the perks. I have no objection to decent pay, but I don't think the workload is particularly unusual, not the expectation of unpaid additional hours.

Seriously? Teachers are paid for directed time- 195 days- plus non-directed time, not just 195 days.

Our contract states that we are paid for 195 days, 1265 hours per year.

I'm a teacher in Scotland and I get £50,598, top the the main grade pay scale. I don't think it's a bad salary (compared to England for example) but it's not enough for the work we do.

I would rather workload was tackled. Currently Scotland are working on reducing class contact time by another 90 mins to give us more time plan/prepare but the number one thing that would make the biggest impact for both staff and pupils would be to reduce class sizes.

When on earth does that English teacher mark ! During mock weeks I mark 150 papers x 2 for each year group. My English colleagues do the same which is a lot of essays to read and assess against every AO. How do you do that in 3 PPAs a week (along with the usual stuff) ? Genuinely intrigued !

No it doesn't if you are employed under the Burgundy Book.

It states you must be available for work for 195 days & the headteacher will direct you during thus time.

In addition, you must work additional hours as necessary in order to complete your professional duties ie marking, planning etc. These can be outside the 195 days but you can't be directed to do them on those days.

Teachers are paid for 195 days plus the additional time it takes them to complete their work.

Edited: this is in response to the poster above re 195 days/1265 hours.

But I am PAID for the 1265 hours. I know this because my payslip states 32.5 hours per week. You are missing the point.

It doesn’t matter what you think, it matters what people do.

And people who are teachers are quitting and those who aren’t teachers aren’t rushing to replace them so we are in the situation where thousands of kids don’t have teachers, particularly at secondary and at crisis levels in severe shortage subjects.

However good you think teachers have it, it’s not enough to actually get teachers for those kids.

And if you have kids in a state school, it’s likely to be them at some point. It has certainly been mine, and those of my family members, sometimes with outcomes that has really impacted their lives.

I’ve taught for donkeys years so am very good at reusing lessons and just adjusting for various individual students who need some form of differentiation. However I still have to mark. I work part time but still see 300 pupils a fortnight. I have PPA but I have to use that time to sort out my photocopying, answer emails, sort out SEN review paperwork, input marks for reports etc before I even look at marking. I just don’t see how even an experienced teacher gets everything done in their PPA. I do know teachers who do hardly any extra hours but they rarely mark work and don’t care about differentiating material. I don’t think they are doing the job properly.

Same. It is why I left and many others too.

I would rather keep my current salary and only work my contracted hours.
I’m currently on maternity leave and due to go back at the end of this month and I’m dreading it. I’ve actually considered leaving teaching for a Monday-Friday 9-5, so I can spend more time with my family.

32.5 hours is the minimum school week ie the time the children are there and you are teaching them. It is your teaching commitment not your totally hours worked or paid.

I think that the bottom line is that pay is a red herring.
Teacher pay, like many in the public sector, has not kept up with inflation. Not ideal but this is absolutely not the cause of the retention/ recruitment crisis.
It's the conditions. Insane workload (I have worked in other sectors including banking before and since I was a teacher and it's far higher than anything else I have encountered); increasingly challenging behaviour; a mental health and SEND crisis with no money for provision and MATs/leadership that often only care about results; a toxic environment and management style; ridiculous parents who want you to gently parent 34 kids simultaneously whilst maintaining exemplary behaviour in the class. But above all workload.
I know, from working in other roles that I am capable and efficient, but I still worked 12 hour days, weekends, through the holidays...not to be a high performer, just to manage. And what is different about teaching is 'performance' element of the job when you are actually teaching. In my current job I make presentations about complex material. I get time to prep and certainly wouldn't be expected to do this for 6 hours a day then be fresh as a daisy to start on the other 50% of my job (and I have a much easier audience these days!).
Whilst I was impacted by the below inflation pay as a teacher it would never have made me leave. It was conditions all the way.

Thank you. Yes that makes sense and I'd imagine many feel similar.

This. Think teaching is so great? Become a teacher!

I agree. The only teachers I've ever seen who can get all their work (ie marking, lesson prep and admin) done in our measly PPA time, and who are on a full timetable, massively cut corners and give pupils quite a poor learning experience. It's literally impossible to do the job sufficiently well in the time allocation.