How important are appearances when it comes to someone’s job?

[Shallabamba]

Nurse here. Throughout my years of training and years qualified my weight has fluctuated. I’ve been skinny, fat, overweight due to health conditions and then put on weight due to pregnancy and back down to a healthy weight now. I’ve read a fair few threads on here where some posters have said they wouldnt take advice from a fat nurse, I’ve also read numerous articles mainly from the Daily Fail regarding how all nurses sit on our fat arses all day 😂 I also have had fellow nurses who have said would you really take advice from a fat HCP? So I ask you, on this anon public forum would you really judge a fat nurse? Would you think they would less competent than a slim nurse? Or do you think their job has nothing to do with their weight? I also asked myself this question in relation to other jobs, for example would I trust a hairdresser to cut and style my hair if I thought they had really rubbish hair? Or a PT who was out of shape? Are appearances important when it comes to someone’s profession?

Worked for over 23 years in my job, in lots of different departments, probably worked with over hundreds of HCP and I can say I have never met someone so fat it slowed care delivery. Yes, I have met lots of fat HCP but their weight has never interfered in them doing their job. Like I’ve met many who have bad backs or knees due to injury, not because of the weight. There are often delays in hospitals but this is nothing to do with people being fat it’s usually because the ward is short staffed or an appt has ran over.

@GDPhoridFlies I'm sure I would, I'm getting there slowly but surely with losing fat and gaining muscle. The fact of the matter is, im much fitter at half a stone overweight with consistent regular exercise than when i was a healthy bmi but did not exercise, barely slept and was overworked. So it's opened my eyes to making snap judgements about people's athletic ability based on whether they're overweight or not.

I think you need to read what you actually wrote instead of trying to back peddle. But I’ll explain very simply for you so you understand… if you make such a flippant comment that in your words “ It’s a particular common phenomenon for anti bmi sentiment to come from overweight medical professionals” you aren’t going to be stupid enough to make such a claim without actual evidence. You stated it a fact rather than opinion. If you had said i think.. then okay that’s fine. But to then use people on social media as someway of backing up what you said is being deliberately obtuse. But yeah of course label me weird for proving you wrong. Personal attacks often come from people that aren’t intelligent. And yes, that is fact.

Again, claim (summarized): “Overweight medical professionals often say BMI is useless”

Evidence: The content overweight medical professions are posting on social media in which they’re saying BMI is useless.

I’m not back peddling at all. That doesn’t require a study to prove. You’re not “proving me wrong” here because you can’t prove a negative.

Ok, well show me this “evidence then” send me the links or screenshots of overweight medical professionals stating clearly that they think BMI is useless. But to make it unbiased (which I know you don’t believe in) you would have to find overweight medical professionals saying BMI is not useless.

It’s like me saying it is a particular common phenomena that anyone can be an exercise coach without having any formal training, so why should we listen to them? And finding people off social media saying yes, we don’t have any formal training. Of course this is not the case for all exercise coaches, some might. You have to look at all the information not just the information that is relevant to your point.

I do know a HCP who is severely and very visibly anorexic, I would struggle to take health care advice from her about anything to do with food. I would probably feel the same about a very morbidly obese person.

I did ask what about skinny people previously but no one replied, so guess more people have an issue with fat than skinny. Are they actually anorexic? They could have a health condition and you wouldn’t know about it. Also anorexic is a very serious mental health condition, whilst being fat/obese is not. So similar could be would you judge a nurse if they had depression or bipolar? Not that you would be able to tell, but plenty do have mental health conditions and do their job perfectly well. But I understand what you’re saying in terms of appearance.

I am am an HCP who teaches lifestyle change and healthy eating to patients with high blood pressure, high cholesterol and Type 2 Diabetes. I am a size 10. My colleague I work alongside in the same role is a size 14. She is a keen weightlifter, I’m a long distance runner. We’ve noticed that the female patients on the whole prefer to come to see her and when they have seen me, they’ve made comments such as “ I was frightened to see you as I didn’t think you’d understand me given I’m overweight” “ I see you out running, you aren’t going to make me start running are you?”
We have the same success rate at helping patients reverse their medical conditions but clearly patients have judged us based on our appearances.

I have worked with plenty of HCA’s where their weight has unfortunately impacted their ability to do their job. Although I have loved these colleagues dearly, everyone knew if you were working with them you would need to work double time to make up their shortfall.

It’s a pity OP you seem so intent at trying to demonise what the fitness poster has said. I think the NHS should be embracing some of what the fitness industry are teaching. The healthy living plate, 5 fruit or veg and 30 mins exercise 3 times a week spouted by the NHS for the last 25 years is only going to go so far for longevity .

I’m not able to access social media on my phone due to the settings on it, put in place to help me manage my screen addiction. (Convenient, I know.) I told you what to search.

I do not have to provide you with examples of overweight HCP saying BMI is not useless to “not be biased.” My claim was not that every overweight HCP says BMI is useless, but rather that there is a trend of OHCP saying BMI is useless, which you can find examples of on SM if you bother to look.

It is true that people can become exercise coaches without any formal training, and yes you will find individuals who confirm that online…but that just means you have to be careful about who you’re listening to when you need advice, doesn’t it?

Id have no problem taking advice from an overweight HCP. Assuming they are giving me well researched, up to date advice. Its not like them being fat or thin will affect the quality of the information they are imparting, is it?

I know my patient care didnt change from when I was a size 22/24 nurse to now when Im a size 8/10 (Ive always been known for never sitting down and rushing around constantly at work....its just my feet hurt more when I was bigger!).

I wonder if part of the problem with this discussion is that people are conflating the categories of overweight, obese, and morbidly obese by saying overweight when they mean obese or morbidly obese.

So you’re a HCA? Were you ward based now practice based?

You’re talking about HCA, whilst I’m talking about nurses specifically, so two different job roles. Of course I’ve had to turn patients in the past or help dress them which is more physical, but being fat does not stop a nurse from giving medication correctly or assessing a patient. Many nurses that are slim have bad backs or knees due to injury, I’m one of them but that again doesn’t stop me doing my job in terms of competency.

I’m not demonising what he said I don’t agree with it. You don’t need any formal training to be a fitness coach. Many HCP have to study for 3/4 years to get into their profession, get registered, attend placement and complete exams and coursework, they need to have an extensive understanding of biology and how the human body and medication works, as well as complete ongoing training. What does a fitness instructor need to do? I see plenty of them on Instagram giving out a lot of misinformation. If I want nutritional advice then I’ll see a qualified dietician. If I want to know how to lift weights or improve my techniques then I’ll see a fitness instructor.

Good point. Very big difference to someone who is overweight to someone that is morbidly obese. Size 12 can be overweight if you’re short. If you’re tall you might even be underweight.

You don’t need to go to school for years to understand that BMI is a useful tool in determining an individual’s risk of weight-related health conditions.

This is absolutely not correct. I would agree that not many are overweight due to illness or medication. However, it is now known that obesity is a far more complex condition potentially involving genetics, gut health, hormones, biological processes and many other different factors, many of which people don’t actually have much control over. It is far more than diet and exercise. When somebody is obese, it is the case that the chance of that person losing significant weight and keeping that off without bariatric surgery (or now drugs etc) is very small. Of course there are people who do and that is fantastic.
There are loads of people who eat badly and don’t exercise, but aren’t overweight. We know now that there are real differences between people which lead to some being obese and some not, even on the same diet and exercise.
Obviously people need to take some responsibility, but it’s far more complicated than you think.

My dad's (type 2) diabetes nurse is an overweight smoker. I guess she can sympathise with his struggles in reducing food intake/willpower but overall I can't help but think it's hard to take advice from someone who doesn't "walk the walk". Like if your hairdresser had crap hair, or your dentist was missing a fee teeth.

Just because a nurse may be overweight doesn't mean that they don't know or recognise the science behind exercise and nutrition advice. It just means like the person they are giving the advice they struggle with the reality of it.

So I wouldn't judge them.

I also wouldn't judge a hairdresser with a bad cut because clearly someone else has to cut their hair.

But I would judge someone in a customer facing role who didn't present themself in a clean and tidy manner.

Very convenient, almost unbelievable 😁I did actually look and I couldn’t find any of these fat HCP saying this. Seen many articles about how it is not accurate but you wouldn’t be able to tell if the author was fat. Also looked at videos but they were all from slim people. So I guess I’ll have to wait until you’re able to unlock your phone to prove to me that they exist.

And yes, you are right about being careful who you take advice from. What formal training do you have?

Look on social media, plenty of slim HCP will disagree, and say it’s an outdated tool.

TBH I think quite a few nurses are overweight. Combination of stressful job and shiftwork makes them more likely to be.
Im certainly not going to judge them about it!

I don’t care how fat my nurse is and good advice is good advice. Doesn’t matter how fat the person offering advice is.

I wouldn't be interested in listening to medical advice from a qualified overweight nurse if the subject was weight management and nutrition.
In a similar vein, I wouldn't be interested in advice from a dermatologist with unmanaged skin conditions or a dressmaker wearing ill-fitting clothes.
Practice what you preach and all that.

I’m not arguing over whether it’s useful or outdated. I already explained why it’s still largely accurate and useful; that’s a fact regardless of who says it and how much they weigh.

Forgot to add, I would listen to advice where the professional can show they follow it themselves or look believable that they do.
For example, if someone advised me not to drink because of "x, y snd z dangers and it's easy not to drink, I myself never consume alcohol and don't miss it". If they looked healthy to me, I'd be inclined to believe them. But. Of course they could be alcoholics but the problems are not visible (yet).

Well no you haven’t. You give me your opinion which isn’t fact. If it doesn’t matter how much they weight, why bring up overweight HCP who think it’s outdated? If you’re going to bring weight into the debate then at least bring up all the slim non medical professionals who also think the same, the ones whose videos I saw. But okay. Only bring up weight if it supports your point…