To wonder if people were actually healthier when everyone smoked

[Fragmentedbrain]

(I have never smoked and used to hate going to bars etc that stank of smoke so this is a very against my own interests question but)

Smoking makes people thinner (it just does)

Cigarettes can be good for people with anxiety

Smoking is a social activity and social connection is good for health

Should we try and get a tiny bit more going?

(Not me I still don't want my hair to smell)

I suppose death is a pretty effective way of keeping your weight down…

I hate smoking. Both my parents died at around 70 from it - mum lung cancer and dad emphysema. But I can see your point. Let people choose to smoke if they enjoy it. Smokers do put strain on the NHS but they would do the same at a later date from other complex health conditions. There’s massive pressure on the NHS when people live longer and have multiple conditions. Not many people live to an old age with no suffering and die peacefully in their sleep. What’s the point in extending life for so long - enjoy your best healthy years while you can.

Most people in my family were smokers and fat. I dont think the thinness was all down to smoking but probably other factors like more manual work, more walking, smaller portions etc

I am sorry you are getting so much stick, OP, I think that this is a very interesting thought exercise.

Clearly smoking has downsides for health. Not a ton of upsides, but does it tend to exist in concert with other behaviours that are positive?

Was the population overall healthier when people did smoke - it might have been. Not necessarily because of smoking as such, however.

I do think it's worth challenging the assumption that a longer life is always better. It is the case that as we have extended people's years, we have not necessarily extended their healthy years. So that's an interesting point. We've also extended the number of people who make it to the most expensive years of old age.

I don't know that it means people should be encouraged to smoke. But it puts rather a differernt spin on trying to discourage it.

Where are the statistics for the percentage of people who had anxiety before the smoking ban?

You cannot seriously believe that smoking is healthy and society would improve if people did it more?

Have you watched anyone die from a smoking-related illness?

That would answer your question

The facts that obesity rates were lower and smoking rates were higher are not related.

It was unknown how bad smoking was at time when portion sizes were smaller, there weren’t takeaways on every corner and supermarket shelves weren’t filled with highly addictive, highly calorific UPF crap.

As time has passed, the dangers of smoking have become more widely known, cigarette packs have warnings on them and smoking in public places was banned. In the same period, food intake, especially unhealthy food, has increased significantly due to its increased availability. It’s called a coincidence.

Far less sedentary lifestyle than today

Much more walking

Physical work in the home

Totally different lifestyle

Also food was sold fresh in the 50s. Little pre-packaging and rationing didn't end till 1954

Skinny doesn't automatically equal unhealthy op. You can be skinny and more unhealthy than an obese person.

Smoking just causes different cancers to obesity, so choose your poison.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable.

Jeanne Calment lived for more than 2 years past the age of 120; no one else has lived to that age. Her relative longevity is much more impressive than most records (eg Usain Bolt’s in the 100m). Perhaps the majority of women smoked when she was a young adult, but a large proportion didn’t. (Male smoking more universal in those years.) If smoking was so very bad for longevity how can the oldest ever person have smoked, and almost until her death?

I don’t deny that smoking is very bad for you. It would be inconceivable if Usain Bolt had lit up before the 100m. For many people it causes DNA damage that leads to cancer. But it doesn’t do this to everyone, manifestly. Perhaps we in fact spend too much time talking about the long-term consequences and too little time on the short-term ones.

I say all of this as a former smoker, then vaper, now free of both. For me, the problem with smoking was the dispiriting psychological fact of addiction. I never felt that it had such a profound impact on my health as many other choices.

When my brother died in 2024 of smoking-related cancer at 56, leaving a son of 14, he was dead skinny.

Dead. And skinny. Or skinny. And dead. Doesn’t actually matter which. He’s still dead.

I'd have preferred him obese and alive, frankly.

I think maybe you're dismissing too quickly the fact that hardly anyone was obese when smoking was commonplace

when are we talking?

I don't know anyone who smokes. Even the shelters pubs brought in aren't used so have been dismantled. I think a packet of cigarettes is £16 these days. That's incredibly expensive. I guess that the taxes worked

Correlation is not causation

Tell this to my grandmother who died from throat cancer at the age of 42 in the 70s leaving behind 4 children, the youngest was 7 (my mother) who has no memory of her own mother 👍🏻

Yes I am with you OP. I also feel sorry that my children aren’t going to experience excitement and community spirit of ‘going down the pub’ on a weekend. Mental health is just as important as physical. I don’t smoke anymore, but I believe I started to get through some difficult times as a teenager. Nobody ever seems to consider the positives.

My grandad smoked about 60 a day, likely more when he was younger, spent time in Japanese POW camp during WW2, and lived until he was 98. He walked to the pub every day, sometimes twice a day and was not fat at all.

I think maybe you're dismissing too quickly the fact that hardly anyone was obese when smoking was commonplace

And when, concurrently, fast food was a rare treat not a daily habit.

And when UPFs were rarities, not stuffed into every product.

And when people moved their bodies more, as part of normal daily life.

And when people didn't feel the need to eat constantly, not only between meals but when on public transport, or walking along on the street.

Volunteer on your local respiratory ward looking after people with COPD due to smoking. You’ll soon change your tune.

It is true that the average weight of a person was lower in the 50s/60s when more people smoked, but that was because: UP foods weren't everywhere, in most households, mum stayed at home and cooked from scratch everyday, a lot of people walked everywhere, as relatively few people had cars, most children played out all the time, very few went to nursery and they played out all day, there were no phones and screens-even rich people didn't have a TV for each child, not as many types of food were available, food had more nutrition so you felt full more quickly, it was normal to marry young and people tended to stay with their families and were active together.

Also, although obesity was rare in younger people, when I see old photos shared, the older people in the pictures weren't all slim.

And there was no culture of snacking on processed food marketed solely for eating between meals. All supermarkets now have fridges and aisles which are there specifically for this.

People are fatter now because it's really hard to avoid Ultra-processed food imo, not because we've all decided to quit smoking. In the countries you've cited home cooking and quality food is still more common than here.

Even if smoking did make you thinner, a) being thin isn't necessarily healthy, and b) you'd just be trading the problems of obesity for increased cancer risk.

Yabu.

Get real

I do think smoking was a part of the reason why people were generally slimmer in the past, in a sort of indirect way, and apparently there is some sort of smokers paradox - but, for the majority of people, the negative effects of smoking will damage their health. I had a grandmother who smoked 40 a day till her early 60s, who then quit and lived to her early 90s- but she was definitely an exception.
Things I noticed after I gave up - I used to smoke a lot 12 + years ago - my low level constant anxiety actually largely disappeared (to be fair, could be age helping) I used to get blocked ears almost constantly, and I used to get cold feet and hands a lot and since I gave up, I don't. Also, on cold mornings my chest would hurt when I woke up 😬 I'm also fairly sure I had the beginnings of scurvy once, when I was around 19. If I did, it was likely caused by both poor diet and heavy smoking (depletes vit C).