I’m very very embarrassed that my child hits so be gentle

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She is 12 and year 7 being assessed for adhd/asd. We’ve alsways had problems, she can be the loveliest child ever, but sensory issues and certain behaviour issues raised flags for me but everyone said she would grow out of it. It wasn’t picked up in primary apart from one teacher. She’s very smart top set child, but has started to be a school avoider so problems with that now, she has friends, lots of friends but when assessing her the psychologist said he was going to consider asd based in another stuff and thinks she socially naive. I only asked for an adhd assessment. I didn’t think asd as she has many friends etc

yesteday I had to fill fill out a form for her and I made a mistake she took the pen and stabbed my arm, and elbowed my arm really arm and today it’s swelled up. She said stop being dramatic, I barely touched you!! then went off to her sleepover , we wouldn’t stop her she was start screaming and physically and mentally I couldn’t take her her meltdowns so she went to her friends house, and my two sons both asd were there and didn’t want to cause more of a scene so before anyone says why did you let her go I was in agony and my boys needed me and a calmer house.

this isn’t the first time she has hit me hard, she kicked me hard on the legs a few weeks ago for me saying she tans nicely but she turned on me in a rage and said I don’t tan I j burn!

my legs still ache and they were bruised. She has lashed out before. I’ve been having aches and pains for ages and even asked for blood test so I am being assessed, I’m now nearly 50 so no spring chicken here and my body isn’t what it used to be. Also I do a physical job so sometimes I’m more achey than normal so her elbowing me on the arm her lile hell but she made out it was hard.

a few months ago I ended up with heart palpitations in A&E she was texting me she loved me and the nicest she’s ever been.

im now Sat with an ice pack on my arm nearly 24 hrs later as it seemed to have swelled up. . She’s still at her friends and if I’m honest I love her so much but I’m at peace right now without waking on eggshells.

the school are threatening suspension, she doesn’t care, she calls me vile names and I’m so upset. I’ve gone so wrong yet I’ve tried everything. In her initial report it said something about PDA which explains a lot about a lot but I don’t know how to handle her anymore.
my 7 year old son also asd hugged me and and I’ll never hurt you mummy l, he’s seen his sister speak to me as well, she doesn’t hit her brothers. Winds them up yeah but never hurts them. I’m the only one, she did grab my mother by the neck once and my mum was shocked at her behaviour. She loves my daughter and has always treated her well and my daughter loves her. I’ve been spat at and just so many things, not everyday and we’ve had lovely times and although a challenging child she’s turned much much worse, her name calling me the most disgusting things and physically hitting me, she’s hit me before in primary. and she’s been wonderful when I was sick in bed once and making me tea and checking one me but she’s like Jekyll and Hyde. I don’t know if therapy would help? Anything because she’s oniy 12 now!! I can’t take years of this. I don’t know what to do?

You need to separate the diagnosis and parenting from the consequences.

I parent ds2 differently due to his adhd, you can’t punish it out of them. It’s taken time, but we have strategies in place, he is also medicated.

consequences are completely separate, there is no way in this earth she’d have been going on that sleepover.

you need every bit of help you can get on diagnosis, parenting and treatment. Her dad needs to be stepping in to help when there are signed of her getting violent, as she doesn’t do this with him.

in just a few years she will be an adult, and no employer or law enforcement will care about any diagnosis, she will face the full consequences of her actions.

you need help to parent the child you have, while still preparing her for real world consequences.

I’d say she’s sounds more like PDA - I looked after a child who had a PDA profile and she was similar.

@BertieBotts thank you for the sensible and measured advice.

OP, we are in the same position as you and the stigma and judgement is real.

I don't really tell people any more because when it comes right down to it, the "I would never" types haven't actually dealt with it and don't know what they'd do.

Year 7 is a very common year for things to blow up, especially with girls, especially ones on the spectrum.

My DD has got better with age but we have had the diagnoses since she was 7.

NVR training would help you probably. Look up Yvonne Newbold.

DC like this act out with their mums (and sometimes dads) because they are their safe people.

This is a 12 year old.

Looking for reasons (not excuses) for the behaviour will help. Extrapolating to years in the future is hardly going to help.

It is very important that parents in this situation don't take advice from parents who haven't been in this situation.

It is very hard to get anything diagnosed in the UK, not because the needs aren't there, but because of the years long waiting lists and the fact a lot of healthcare has been privatised by the back door.

Doesn't stop you e.g. using the PDA Society "PANDA" methods to see if they help.

OP: the charity Sibs might be useful for your other kids.

www.sibs.org.uk/supporting-young-siblings/parents

I really don't know what people think a GP can or will do.

They are GENERAL practitioners. This is a specialist area. All they can do is refer you to services with massive waiting lists.

I ended up explaining to our GP how one goes about getting a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD in our area, what it costs and where the service is that most parents end up using. Plus where one finds NVR, play therapy etc.

The GP wrote a bunch of notes. They didn't know anything, but because they were a decent person, wanted to be able to point others in the right direction.

I later discovered the LA have some online parenting seminars, but it was the paediatrician told me that and it took another 3 years to get to see him...

Op is she violent or aggressive at school?

What do you do?
you mentioned trying to take her phone off her. What else do you do. What approach do you take? Is there a conversation that takes place when she calms down? The only thing I’ve seen so far is she was allowed to go to sleepover. If the violence is directed at you, could your partner have told her she wasn’t going whilst you went out the house some place with your other dc for a bit? How would she respond to your partner?

@1SillySossij there's a "show all OP posts" button. She describes in a subsequent post, an absolutely classic, common situation where both the primary and the secondary school were/are aware there are problems but what help is offered was/is ineffectual. No-one seems to have referred for an EHCNA and the OP was perhaps unaware she could have done that herself.

As a result there is now a completely disregulated 12 year old and a miserable family.

It is so irresponsible of primary schools to land secondary schools with these situations.

Natural consequences are great, but they are difficult to manufacture in any useful way. Eg removing her phone - she will not be able to see any connection between her actions and you “stealing” her phone.

My son had few absolute rules, and we picked our battles very carefully, and ended up with three absolute rules. “No violence” was not on that list because at the point of violence he was not in control, much like having an asthma attack or a seizure. This is the part that many people do not understand. It’s not excusing the violence at all, but understanding that strategies need to move back minutes, hours, or even days and weeks in order to prevent the violence, and teach the child how to spot signs of disregulation in themselves and learn how to manage it for themselves as they get older.

This is the difficulty in criticising PDA parents and suggesting they’re weak or lacking discipline, because it’s too easy to lose faith in the methods that work longterm for this particular disability. The whole world want you to discipline your child to the moon and back to fix this problem, all whilst parenting their own dc who respond to bog standard parenting techniques (even those with ASD but not PDA).

I’ve played this game long enough to have a thick skin around this topic and the “helpful” advice commonly given. The op sounds new to this. Her dd is going through assessments and PDA has been noted, so any advice that isn’t specifically accessible to PDA is pointless and unhelpful to the op.

OP I really want to reassure you that things can and do improve. PDA methods and exploring other strategies around them can be really helpful. You will end up dropping normal parenting strategies (which makes many MNers heads explode 😂), but it will slowly make a difference.

Things like scaling (5 point scale) are good to help you and your child learn to spot signs and put sensory methods into place to bring her back to a happy spot.

Please don’t be embarrassed by this, it just means you need to find things that help your dd that most parents don’t even have to consider, let alone try to understand.

My son is an adult now, he ended up being home educated because school was too difficult to manage, but it worked well, the violence completely stopped, and he’s now working full time. Doing things in a different way can give our children opportunities when typical methods just harm them.

This is great advice, and not minimising but sympathetic and understanding, with relevant information because you have been through it yourself.
No doubt it was a journey but who or where did you finally go to that actually helped?
I wasn’t aware of this other name PDA is it.
My DC is 7 and I have experienced some behaviours so far this year.
I am due to have a meeting with his teacher although that wasn’t planned for this reason, they are having short meetings to discuss if your child is reaching their IEP targets, something I did not know about. And had to look it up, and it said it’s something they do for SENs children. Well that’s interesting because the teacher up until now taking on other info, and that we had an autism assessment done. Did not think it was that. But at last ordinary parents meeting did mention a few things.
The school are supposed to be well equipped when it comes to things, so hopefully that will help.
I will mention briefly what has been happening to see what she advises, maybe a follow up meeting and any advice or referral or other from there.
Though a friend said GP, because they have issues with their son and went to GP who has referred to camhs I think. But I think through them? Or other will have an assessment for adhd too.
Which a lot of the behaviour sounds like it could be.

From the PDA Society website

No, she’s not aggressive all the time; it’s weird, it’s happened when I’ve least expected it. Like the other day I made a simple mistake on her forms and had to cross it out and went berserk! Saying I needed tipex and went mad and that’s when she got physical. She truants from lessons, she’s rude, she told a teacher her to stop looking at her and look at her book, teacher was shocked at her rude response, when the teacher told her to stop talking. She also told a teacher to wait when the teacher asked her to stop taking, she disrupts lessons, but they claim that they can’t keep her safe as she goes missing around the school grounds etc. bunking off lessons, also, a couple of teachers have said how lovely she is, how they love having her mainly music and PE other than that she is very disruptive and goes missing.

What consequences have you tried?

Have you applied for an EHCNA? Has anyone at school ever mentioned it and do you know you can request it yourself?

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/asking-for-an-ehc-needs-assessment

I think if your DD was seen by an educational psychologist, it would shed light on her behaviour.

Younger child time out, speaking to then calmly about their behaviour and for them to reflect on it, behaviour charts rewarding good behavior, (occupational therapist she went one for sensory issues before diagnosis when she was 9) she wouldn’t wear socks, and her shoes would fall apart with holes on them before she would wear anymore, she would wear the same top over a over, she’s better now but I think she tries to fit in now so wears trendier shoes etc but she still wears the same 2/3 things, never any underwear. Just shorts, and she uses period pants, the OT said totally pointless method regarding charts for my daughter as she will not listen, and she was right about that one! We’ve tried grounding her she trashes her room and screams. My mum went to clean her room once when we were away and she went ballistic and blocked my mum on her phone because my mum cleaned it.

shown her right from wrong. The only reason she went to to the sleepover as I explained I was exhausted, physically and mentally. Aching arm and didn’t have the mental capacity to deal with it. Her friends mum picked her up and off she went and no I didn’t stop it. I was exhausted

Speaking gently about their behaviour is not a consequence. It's a pretty thick 12 year old who doesn't know hitting hurts! That's why they do it to people, they do it to annoy them.
Star charts are for encouraging good behaviour. Hitting needs punishing, not ignoring. You can't let that go!

Op, the reason you have got to this point is because you have likely tried to parent her as some on here are suggesting - and you have found that the rewards and consequences that work for NT children are not working for your dd. It sounds like you are only just beginning to look at PDA resources and strategies, which over time I think will work, though they do feel counterintuitive as it tends to go against all the parenting advice parents receive. It will be quite a hard lesson, so prepare yourself for big adjustments. The other key factor here is her anxiety - you'll find that if you find the triggers and treat the causea of the anxiety, things will improve. In the meantime, I'd recommend reading The Explosive Child.

People saying she can control it really don't understand PDA, or how autism in girls more generally (internal presentation) can manifest. Coke Bottle Effect is common, and it's usually the closest parent who bears the brunt - you are her safe place/ person. It feels shit and exhausting but actually that foundation is a really important one to focus on because you are the key to helping her to find coping strategies.

Help and support will unfortunately likely need to be self researched, learned and practiced in the first instance because the cavalry is very unlikely to arrive any time soon. I'm sorry if that sounds bleak, but it is a reality experienced by many others.

Does your dd have an ehcp in place? If much of her anxiety is school-based you may benefit from applying for an ehcp needs assessment.

Please also try the SEN boards here. Aibu will end up making you feel conflicted about how you're dealing with your daughter's difficulties and if you take notice of the voices saying be more punitive in your approach, your situation will worsen.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but you are not alone. It's really important you try to find time for yourself. You will feel calmer and more able to help your dd if you prioritise your own mental health.

@Whatafustercluck gives very wise advice.

My similar daughter is always worse around school holidays too so that's something to consider.

Thank you much! I can’t say it enough, ive tried everything that would usually work with a child. My partner thinks punitive methods work and we have had some problems. He came from that household and it’s messed his family up. At least 2 of his siblings are neurodivergent. It doesn’t work, it just makes things so much worse. I’ve seen NT kids respond to methods like this ? Even one of sons who is only asd but not my daughter. The PDA makes sense

Hi OP … been there, seen it, bought the T-Shirt. Glad to say at 18 we appear to be out the other side … helped by Sertraline, an ASD diagnosis with a great consultant psychiatrist, Therapy, mindfulness, and time.

It’s awful. I was punched, bitten, head butted, knocked the the floor, hair pulled, clothes ripped, shouted at, screamed at, called all the names under the sun - by someone who I am now so close to .. feels like an age ago.

You are not alone, please remember that. There is nothing to be ashamed of. You are in a difficult position.

Things I learned along the way … don’t make everything a battle, regular punishments don’t work (as someone said to me once “what is it you are punishing her for, having autism?”), find out what helps them regulate (DD was her computer .. so I never took it off her .. despite what many on MN advise), work out how to step into her world (conversations with DD were easier to have with a side helping of K-POP or American Sports), learn when to walk away (no point trying to talk to them when they are overloaded).

Honestly, the big game-changers for me were Sertraline, and getting older.