Concerned about depopulation

[Shawlshare]

AIBU to think the threat of depopulation is being massively underestimated in the UK?

I am early 50s, 3 kids and have lots of friends, young professionals in their 30s involved in the same hobby as me and nobody is having kids. Nobody wants them. People can’t afford accommodation big enough for kids, cannot afford childcare and find day to day life trying to stay ahead of the cost of living crisis tiring enough. They want to spend the weekend doing what they want to do, which is fair enough, but the UK will rapidly become extinct if this goes on for long.

South Korea is likely to become extinct as a country within 4 generations do to similar issues. I can see the UK going the same way. It’s scary and sad. I can’t see it reversing though as any hint of free childcare / flexible working etc etc is politically unpopular with so many. Anyone else concerned? What’s the solution?

Depopulation is one of the major challenges my children will face.

The total fertiltiy rate, the number of children a woman has, is a very long way below the 2.1 required to maintain a steady population level. In South Korea it is 0.7, that means that in three generations there will only 4% of the number of babies born as this year.

At the moment TFR in all Western countries is a long way below replacement and falling. I hope in a century or so it will rise to replacement so that populations stabilise.

The journey to stability will not be at all pleasant.

Assisted dying. Hmm. I would rather be dead than spend 20 years with severe cognitive issues living obliviously in a care home and I’m sure I’m not alone, but for safeguarding reasons it’s hard to ethically legislate for that.

The planet needs depopulation- each child/adult is consuming far more than their equivalent 50 years ago and the strain on the environment is clear.

plus I think women are fed up of sub standard medical care, doing the bulk of child care & taking the financial & career hit.

Also, the healthcare structure will chance so it’s no longer free at point of delivery.

Or maybe it will be "free" for young people but older people have to pay

@Stopitbella

The comment I originally replied to was the below

"Poor and workless people are having as many children as they want. "

You didn't say in my area or my experience. Poor and workless people are definitely not all having as many children as they want. That's all...

How can it be declining when the population is growing. Immigration over the last 15 years has added millions to the grow so don’t worry about it some would say….

If you’re taking about British people having less kids then you have a point. I’m not surprised women aren’t having as many kids now though as the cost of living is so high, many can barely support themselves never mind kids in the mix. It’s a shame but the governments need to sort of the crisis in housing, health care, education, employment, training if they want British people to have more kids.

Assisted dying. Hmm. I would rather be dead than spend 20 years with severe cognitive issues living obliviously in a care home and I’m sure I’m not alone, but for safeguarding reasons it’s hard to ethically legislate for that.

I think the problem is what does that assisted dying look like and when one becomes a "burden" as opposed to having a terminal
illness does assisted dying become the default.

I’m all for assisted dying.

My father tried to take his life when he was first in the grips of dementia, when he had lucid moment. Unfortunately for him, he was found and saved. And then put under dolls so he couldn’t try to kill himself again. And I was supposed to be happy about that! All that happened was that I had to watch him wither away over three years, trapped in hell in his own head, until his body eventually shut down and he died of thirst, after two weeks of silent agony. His house and life savings gone to two care homes that he was abused in and I had to fight.

But still, I had to act happy that he didn’t succeed in suicide and had years of indignity, abuse and a horrific death instead, or I wouldn’t have been allowed to see him unsupervised incase I helped him on his way (which I wouldn’t have done if I didn’t have my own young children). His existence in his last few years really was a fate worse than death.

How can it be declining when the population is growing.

Even if no one had anymore babies tmw the population would still grow because people are living longer and of course immigration

Politicians could be doing so more to help, but they don’t as the moves would be politically unpopular. For instance:

Charge pensioners NICs
Introduce a social care levy like Teresa May suggested.
Fund the NHS in the same way that they do on the continent. An insurance style scheme.
Free childcare for all.
Bin the triple lock.

The absolute outrage that this would cause with the grey vote means these sensible charges will not be made.

Look at the outrage over means testing winter fuel, people would rather blame the boat people b

Your last paragraph gives you away.

Peripissedoff · Today 15:54

Not sure how to word this without getting attacked for being a racist but the truth is you’re probably seeing white British friends having children later and not realising it’s the opposite with other cultures. For example I live in a predominantly white area. Quite a few of us mums had children later not through choice but through having to work (maybe no family supper) meeting partners later etc. I would have loved a family younger but didn’t meet my husband until I was 30 then it was 6 years of fertility treatment and parents couldn’t financially help with anything. Due to finances it was probably a good thing I worked later. Now take a different culture where families all live together, more support for child care with a bigger family or older family members living with the family , married younger (maybe arranged) these cultures are thriving.
It’s also a fact that younger people have so much more freedom now and the choices to travel but again (for females especially) this isn’t accepted in some cultures. Finally western women are waking up there’s more to life than being a mum/wife.
As for your question I’m 100% concerned about the future and there’s no solution as if you look on something like babycentre the top boy name is Muhammad… think that says it all.

This.

Oddly, since you don't know the answer to that, and are making "profiled" assumptions about people you know nothing about, then it doesn't make you a pragmatist, it makes you a racist.

ahhh yes truth and fact.. confirming my point

Thing is, it won’t happen gradually or evenly. Once the falling birth rates reach a certain point then population won’t simply decrease, it will fall off a cliff. Reversing population decline is really, really difficult.

You obviously don’t live in London

One supposed benefit of an ageing population was a shortage of workers & subsequent wage increases but we haven't seen that. Wages have stagnated for years despite big growth in corporate profits.

The impact in China is staggering

"Over the next decade, about 300 million people, who are currently aged 50 to 60, are set to leave the Chinese workforce. This is the country's largest age group, nearly equivalent to the size of the US population."

This argument makes no sense to me. If you're able to look after yourself/looked after well then you probably won't feel like a burden, you won't be unhappy and won't want assisted dying.

If you're not being looked after that well, don't have anyone that really cares about you, you feel like you're a terrible burden and you're totally miserable because you can't look after yourself and have to rely on others then you may want an assisted death - is that really unreasonable?

What you're saying is people should be forced to carry on being lonely, miserable and feeling like a burden because the alternative makes you uncomfortable.

Not really. There was someone who called into a radio station the other day who came from Nigeria to work in his sisters care company, did that for a year and changed to work in a bank. Brought his family with him. I’m sure what there are lots of British workers who would happily work in a bank but would turn their nose up at being a carer. We don’t need to import people to work in a bank, and pay for services for them and their family. We have our own people who would do that and employing someone from Nigeria to work in a bank is keeping a UK person on benefits. I don’t think it’s wrong to say that this is economically foolish for the country.

But someone coming from Nigeria with their skills in AI / big pharma / engineering would easily be a big benefit for the UK economy. I think we need to be more clever with immigration in this country.

I think a lot of working women have realised that having children can be very hard work. It can ruin your body. Labour can be traumatic. It is them, and not their oh who will shoulder the grunt wok. It is them whose career will take the hit, their pension will take the hit, their mental well being will take the hit etc etc.
To top it all the likely hood is that they will either end up as a single parent or having to tolerate all of the above because most women will tell them that men do not pull their weight.
Add to this the cost of childcare as most grandparents will be working for far longer than previous generations.

As for your question I’m 100% concerned about the future and there’s no solution as if you look on something like babycentre the top boy name is Muhammad… think that says it all.

It says nothing. Except for a comment on the ignorance of some people.

In 2023 over 62% of births were classed as "white" compared to 5.2% "Asian" (including Bangladeshi, Indian, Pakistani, and other Asian backgrounds). The reason why Mohammed is "popular" is because every single Muslim boy has that as one of their names! If every "white" boy born had "Joe" as one of their names, Joe would be the runaway favourite.

If you're not being looked after that well, don't have anyone that really cares about you, you feel like you're a terrible burden and you're totally miserable because you can't look after yourself and have to rely on others then you may want an assisted death - is that really unreasonable?

Yes, I think it's sad that someone who needs some form of care & needs dc to help or doesn't have dc to help would end their life early.

What you're saying is people should be forced to carry on being lonely, miserable and feeling like a burden because the alternative makes you uncomfortable.

Where did I say that? I would rather tackle loneliness than suggest dying as a solution. Is that really radical?

People on here are always suggesting this. I'm not really sure what you're asking me...

@Shawlshare I’m sure what there are lots of British workers who would happily work in a bank but would turn their nose up at being a carer.

Evidently not. To employ a migrant worker you require a work visa and can't just pack in a job and work for someone else who hasn't got a work visa for you. To get one you would need to show that you cannot employ a British worker. Of course, one supposed person on a radio show claiming something is evidence of what exactly???