Concerned about depopulation

[Shawlshare]

AIBU to think the threat of depopulation is being massively underestimated in the UK?

I am early 50s, 3 kids and have lots of friends, young professionals in their 30s involved in the same hobby as me and nobody is having kids. Nobody wants them. People can’t afford accommodation big enough for kids, cannot afford childcare and find day to day life trying to stay ahead of the cost of living crisis tiring enough. They want to spend the weekend doing what they want to do, which is fair enough, but the UK will rapidly become extinct if this goes on for long.

South Korea is likely to become extinct as a country within 4 generations do to similar issues. I can see the UK going the same way. It’s scary and sad. I can’t see it reversing though as any hint of free childcare / flexible working etc etc is politically unpopular with so many. Anyone else concerned? What’s the solution?

Artificial intelligence is right around the corner!!! Soon there will be no need for existing humans

my brother works in seo, and also owns multiple profitable websites, ai is completely replacing his job already!!!

Come and visit where I live and see it for yourself. They are absolutely popping them out round here, bab.

Where are you? I am in London and most of my friends have 1 or 2 kids max. No one is having 3 anymore...

Well it would be a good thing as large parts of the planet will soon be uninhabitable

alrhough the I will nit pick your argument

“can’t afford accommodation big enough..” actually means “can’t afford the size of accommodation they would like and don’t want to drop their living standards “

standards and expectations have increased amazingly since I was small - you see it here - it was most common that children used to share beds, girls in one room boys in the other , and the parents slept in the living room - whereas now it’s a room each, a playroom, a study, a spare bedroom and a foreign holiday please

im not saying I think it would be good to return to the days of an outside loo and ice on the inside of the bedroom window, but I am saying that having it all is a new concept

@Shawlshare selling up sooner rather than later is a good idea.

Someone on a similar thread linked to a really interesting article (I can't find it) about South Korea & how the society had become much less tolerant of children as there were fewer of them eg more child free zones popping up.

that’s a city with only half the people living in it that there are now, your street half full

Thats not necessarily a problem. Streets likely to be clearer, travel easier around the place, less pollution… Downside will be that you’ll have to potentially travel further to schools etc.

a tiny working population’s taxes trying to support a massive retired population.

Until a tipping point is reached and people just stop paying the taxes/refuse. And the government tells the old people to get back to work because we are faced with fiscal reality.

Half the chance of getting a GP appointment that you have now as there are far fewer working medics for a larger retired population.

This is one reason that western countries are going for assisted dying… Also, the healthcare structure will chance so it’s no longer free at point of delivery. That will mean it’s possible for workers to get appointments, since the now poorer oldies won’t be able to afford them. And take up of euthanasia will increase.

So the old will die off, the workers will actually gain political power since refusal to work will actually impact on the economy and political stability, and then once numbers are down - being humans we will start the whole damn cycle again.

Meh.

This!

Surely it’s a good thing for the world’s population growth to slow down a little?

Yorkshire/Lancashire?

I don’t think that’s right in many circumstances. My parents were two teachers. We both have professional jobs - far more highly qualified than they were and earning far more. There’s no way I could afford my childhood home. Two teachers can no longer buy a family home of any type in large parts of the UK.

@Stopitbella can you link to actual data though bab?

"The ONS dataa_ shows that in 2022, 44% of families with dependent children had one child, 41% had two, and 15% had three or more"

There are not loads of people having 3 or more dc

I used to live in a lovely, west London suburb too. People with children that I knew had one child, maybe 2. They earned significantly more than anyone I know where I live now earns and they “couldn’t afford” to have anymore, or were older parents due to careers, or didn’t want to stop careers and travelling to have anymore children at all.

My life changed and I now live in an absolute dump of a town in the Black Country. It’s the polar opposite. There are large families everywhere where I am. In a way it’s easier for people as no one ever seems to leave so they all have big families around them to help out with children. It’s an area of high deprivation and low employment.

(I do have three myself, but I have huuuuge age gaps and have had them over 24 years).

Well I see a disproportionate amount on the estate over the road then, and at my children’s school.

Why would I link to data 🤣 fucks sake, I’m just slagging off the scum I live near.

and I said “bab” as that’s the local dialect, I’m bored and was having a chuckle to myself.

And Bojo!

Agree in part - too many people but the issue then becomes who is having children?

But……Will it end up being women who are more or less forced into having children as there’s limited access to contraception (eg sub Saharan Africa), women under the control of men, poorer/less well educated women? Will all these children get the opportunity to flourish?

I worry we will end up with families with children almost completely supported by the state - or not and living in poverty.

It seems that the trend is for people to have fewer children wherever standards of living have increased, healthcare has dramatically reduced infant mortality and women are educated.

I'm not sure depopulation is necessarily a bad thing but the rate could cause significant problems.

I watched a bit of this lecture about it this morning. I got about 20 minutes in before I had to do something else so I don't know how it concludes.

9

Family home? It’s the definition of family home that’s off. Many teachers live in a home with their family so that’s a family home

also not saying ten housing market isn’t fucked up but at the same time I do think it’s as much expectation as real poverty which is the issue for many

it would be really interesting to have a children per couple by class/ wealth breakdown

That’s irrelevant. We’ve had demographic change over millennia

Of course it's not irrelevant when we have systems like an NHS and state pensions! A mainly older population has huge implications

If we face it, we can do it smoothly.

People don't want to face it though as this thread proves. That's the issue!!! Reform are appealing to people who genuinely think we can have lower taxes, better services and reduced migration 🤔

We haven't planned anything to make the transition smoother...

Hence saying ‘poor and workless’ - two groups.

One of my friends is a teacher and is currently under threat of redundancy due to a decrease in the intake of pupils this September.

Just in my immediate friendship group, three are childless by choice, two (including me) only have one DC, and one has three DC.

My maternal grandmother was one of nine, my mum was one of four, I am one of three however one of my siblings is child free and the other has one DC so that’s a huge drop in child numbers in just a few generations.

Not sure how to word this without getting attacked for being a racist but the truth is you’re probably seeing white British friends having children later and not realising it’s the opposite with other cultures. For example I live in a predominantly white area. Quite a few of us mums had children later not through choice but through having to work (maybe no family supper) meeting partners later etc. I would have loved a family younger but didn’t meet my husband until I was 30 then it was 6 years of fertility treatment and parents couldn’t financially help with anything. Due to finances it was probably a good thing I worked later. Now take a different culture where families all live together, more support for child care with a bigger family or older family members living with the family , married younger (maybe arranged) these cultures are thriving.
It’s also a fact that younger people have so much more freedom now and the choices to travel but again (for females especially) this isn’t accepted in some cultures. Finally western women are waking up there’s more to life than being a mum/wife.
As for your question I’m 100% concerned about the future and there’s no solution as if you look on something like babycentre the top boy name is Muhammad… think that says it all.

Doesn’t worry about depopulation usually mean too many brown people are having babies for your liking? (Sorry, OP if I’m maligning you-but you are keeping dodgy company with that opinion.)

Depopulation is only a concern for mega capitalists. It's an actual benefit to the world for the population to decrease. It shows what an utterly flawed economic system we have that what's best for the planet, our air and our resources can be something that people worry about from a position of there being less consumers buying rubbish, therefore affecting economic growth.

@Stopitbella but why would you extrapolate your narrow experience to the rest of the country?

I’m bored and was having a chuckle to myself.

You're easily pleased, bab is more polite than my local dialect 😆

Doesn’t worry about depopulation usually mean too many brown people are having babies for your liking?

Immigrants also have declining birth rates though

Not me personally, it doesn’t bother me the colour of the kids necessarily but I do think it will change the culture of the UK if the population demographics change. The NHS will get a lot worse and anyone with remotely decent pension will get no state pension in the near future.

I think Nigel Farage is definitely petrified that he won’t get a white carer in 40 years time, which is cheering somewhat.

I’m not. I posted about my former experience of life in a lovely part of London, until a few years ago, being vastly different.

My experience of living in a lovely area of Suffolk a decade before that was also vastly different.

But this is what I see here, and from speaking to other people who live in similarly deprived areas around the country through work (in children’s SEN services), people with less money do tend to have more children (who in turn use more services, I work with data across a few local authorities for certain things, I work remotely for a LA in a different part of England and it’s the same).