Sister issues.

[Lucytheluckyone]

My sister is four years younger than me, we were never really close but we did get on, she used to be lovely, kind and friendly. Our relationship started to deteriorate not long after the birth of her little boy (who is a similar age to mine) mainly because of her husband. He is a horrible man with a god like complex. He appears to control her - he moved her to a very isolated area and unfortunately due to the fact she has no friends there or doesn’t work, all of her opinions are now his, which has sadly made her incredibly unlikeable. On top of that he definitely doesn’t like me, probably because I speak my mind and would tell her what I thought of him (which I never have, might I add). My sister has become consumed by politics and hates the world, she is incredibly sensitive to everything and seems miserable. She turns every conversation into a debate about world goings on and it’s exhausting.

To put it bluntly, I don’t really like her anymore. The issue is - this obviously upsets my mum who wants our little boys to have a relationship. My sister is coming home in September and my mum is desperate to do things with them both, which I understand. Trouble is I don’t want my BIL anywhere near my son (we’ve had issues in the past with the way he treats him) and if I leave him with my mum he will be there. On top of that I wonder if my sister and I should sit down and hash things out, however I’m really reluctant due to the fact I don’t like who she is now and kind of feel at peace with that? Anyone else in the same boat? I sort of feel like I would only be doing this for my mum/wider family (who are close so I don’t want tension).

Trouble is I don’t want my BIL anywhere near my son (we’ve had issues in the past with the way he treats him) and if I leave him with my mum he will be there.

This is what stands out for me. He's your child @Lucytheluckyone and your responsibility is to him, not your sister or DM or wider family. OK, in better circumstances it is nice for cousins to spend time together but that isn't the situation here.

I don't think "hashing it out" with your sister would achieve anything other than make things even more fraught but I do think you need to be firm that your son will not be spending time in any situation where you feel uncomfortable and if there is resultant tension, deal with it.

Protect your son from BIL. Ultimately, that has to be the priority

Cutting your sister out of your life because you don't like her political views, and the fact that she goes on about them, sounds like you are also a bit stubborn, maybe even opinionated yourself (personally, I like people with opinions!).
You say you don't like how BiL treats your son but you don't give any more details so it is impossible to comment.
It would be a real shame if two cousins couldn't play together at their nan's house because their mum's don't like each other's political views.

Your mum unfortunately will have to like it or lump it. Just so she can have them both at the same time isn't worth all the stress and angst it would cause u having him around a toxic twat like your BIL. Hopefully they'll divorce one day and she'll be back to same person she was before she met him.

I admit I am quite stubborn(!) but it is much more than just her political views - too much to go into but she is condescending and judgemental and generally not very nice to be around as she brings a really toxic atmosphere with her. My BIL has spoken really badly, quite aggressively towards my son if he’s done anything ‘wrong’ to their child, however they tend to misconstrue what is very normal child behaviour as they have a very helicopter style of parenting so basically my son can’t do anything other than be perfect around his, of my BIL shouts at him.

I admit I am quite stubborn(!) but it is much more than just her political views - too much to go into but she is condescending and judgemental and generally not very nice to be around as she brings a really toxic atmosphere with her. My BIL has spoken really badly, quite aggressively towards my son if he’s done anything ‘wrong’ to their child, however they tend to misconstrue what is very normal child behaviour as they have a very helicopter style of parenting so basically my son can’t do anything other than be perfect around his, or my BIL shouts at him

Can your mum understand your point of view? Does she think her daughter has changed? Could she challenge her?

She does, and she has (nothing much came of it however my sister has on one occasion apologised for her behaviour). She thinks she is controlled and depressed which I agree with, but sadly I’ve had to step away because of her behaviour (I tried to help her for a very long time). My mum tries to downplay it but she does definitely agree, she can’t stand my BIL but is stuck between a rock and a hard place as doesn’t want to rock the boat and hurt her daughter! Which I get

@Lucytheluckyone is your sister still in the same country as you?? how far away is she from your dm?? is she not able to visit without her dh being in tow??

There are several separate issues here.

1. I'd always put my own child first. So, in this instance, either stay with him when he's around your BIL, or don't put him in the position of being around your BIL. (Saying that, I am mindful that what others describe as 'normal child behaviour' is not considered so by others e.g. occassionally bickering over taking turns is pretty normal. Bullying and hitting isn't.)
2. If you don't like one another's politics, is it option to have generic, surface-level conversations with your sister e.g. chat about the kids, the weather, something non-controversial?
3. If she's trapped in what you feel is a controlling relationship, I would keep trying to maintain some level of relationship with your sister. At the very least, let her know that you will always be there for her, no matter how frequently you've disagreed or how infrequently you may see/speak to one another.

Same country but about five hours away! They are attached at the hip, she literally goes nowhere without him.

Honestly, given your mum is on the same page as you, I'd just say to her that you're concerned for your child in their presence and you'd rather he wasn't away from you with them, and you didn't spend too much time all together, you appreciate that's sad and frustrating for her, and you're sorry it's made her feel that way, but ultimately you need to make the best decision as a parent.
She's entitled to her feelings and she will be sad, your sister is entitled to her new (horrible) beliefs but you're entitled to not take responsibility for these or have to listen to them and you're entitled to keep your son happy and not exposed to them. Let everyone have these feelings, you don't need to be responsible for them.
I'd say try and see them for short periods if you wish to maintain the relationship. I agree with the person who said he sounds abusive and when she's ready, your sister might need you. However, do what you need to in order to keep yourself and your little boy happy and safe - if that means not seeing them this trip, that's a shame but it is what it is. I don't think "hashing" will help, she's not going to leave him based on your opinions, so she'll cling to his perspectives and it'll drive a bigger wedge.

I wouldn’t allow a grown man to shout at my child and I would say that every time my mum said anything about getting together tbh

I understand this - I’d give yourself a little more time. You and your sister will always be sisters, and atm she is with her husband who you don’t get along with. When I know I’m going to be invited to situations that I find stressful I have a technique I call “putting in place emotional airbags. “

If you are going to be in a space with your sister / her husband and your Mum who inadvertently is putting pressure on you to swallow your feelings to enable your kids to play, I’d think of doing something before and after the visit that allows you to decompress. If you must be there - shortern the time you will be there to a time you find manageable - a couple of hours for example. Let people know in advance it will be a short visit.

As for your ongoing relationship with your sister - it’s okay to not like family members IMO. I’d keep an eye on her as if she is as you say being isolated by her husband that could lean towards some kind of abusive behavior - keep in contact to check in she is okay, but also keep to boundaries that keep you sane.

good luck X

Thanks so much for all the responses they are really helpful. Foos for thought from some of them and others have basically confirmed my thoughts on BIL being around my son so thank you xx

I completely understand, my sister also hates the world. She doesn’t like the fact that I have different opinions It makes it very diff to hold a conversation now. She is jealous of my life and I feel like she just doesn’t like me any more. We used to get on and spend weekends as a family before Covid and other difficult life events happened. I’ve tried to fix it but nothing is good enough. I’m starting to accept that it will never be the same.
you could try to fix it but I don’t thing it sounds promising. Good luck

Unfortunately you are not going to be able to meet your DMs wish/request as long as BIL is going to be on the scene.

Are there other opportunities where DM could eg take her DGC out for the day? Something like that is the only compromise I can see.

I don’t think there is much hope for your relationship with DSis while she is in her current situation and mindset.

Hi op,

leave it with your sis, she made up her mind and choice a long time ago. Maybe things will get better maybe not.
‘of course your mom is upset but then again…she can’t do much more than you. If she doesn’t want to stray her relationship with her daughter, why would she expect you to do it for her? Ultimately, she is the one that wants something…

Don’t bring your child in the company of someone you have such a dislike. Why would you do that?

dear OP, it sounds as if your sister is/may be in a Coercive/Controlling Behaviour relationship.

Your first duty is to your child and his protection, so that, if you find your BIL's behaviour unhelpful/inappropriate/unwanted in the context of your child, then do what you have to to avoid shared proximity with BIL.

At this stage of the relationship between your sister and BIL, there may be little you can do to help your sister. The main thing is to assure her that you will always be her sister and, in a tight spot, if she finds herself in one, you will be there for her.
Meanwhile, bone up on CCB relationship, what to look out for, what you can do / not do, how you can be an ally.

Can't you visit with your DS, so that he is not alone with BIL. Make it a short visit as others have said, and do some things with your DS on the way/return trip
Surely you can be civil and don't rise to any bait for a few hours. Bite your tongue and don't "have it out" with her. It will just end in a big bust up that will be the worst possible outcome.

Sorry but where my political views come in, it's very important.
I wouldn't give an idiot reform voter the time of day. They will ruin the country even more than the tories if they get in.

I would keep in touch with your sister if I were you. Your BiL sounds very like my ex husband although that didn't go down too well but your sister sounds as if she is completely isolated.What he is doing is a form of abuse. I know it will be difficult but I would urge you to keep a lifeline open for her as she may need it one day. As an adult I always had a good relationship with my sister and she was my rock when everything fell apart but you do have to keep your son as your number 1 priority. I feel for you both.

Can I ask if you don’t mind - did you realise he was like this eventually and that’s what made him your ex?! We are so hoping that she realises one day 😟

YES! I am in EXACTLY the same boat!!
Except with my brother!

I and my brother used to be EXTREMELY close, for a while I liked his partner. However slowly she distanced themselves from his family, she has 2 siblings that she has nothing to do with and hasn’t spoken to her mother for decades… (Tbf her mother is awful!)… anyway after a few years of only seeing them at Christmas despite living 15 minutes apart they made the decision to move abroad - this was something she wanted to do as it was her second language and my brother obliged…. All good - we all do things to keep our partners happy…. However whenever anyone visited she would get jealous, storm off, sulk etc, till it became easier for everyone not to go out there… when they came back to U.K. there was always drama too…
Anyway long story short they fell out with us all for several years, married without telling my parents and had 2 children that she ‘forbid’ my brother from bringing to the U.K. to visit my parents…
Anyway I have stood fast and while everyone else is now talking to them I am not… my brother is suddenly making appearances once or twice a year and the first visit home with his daughter be told my mum he ‘expects everyone to make an effort with him and his DD!’
My mum called me telling me my younger brother and SIL were fine with it and that they think it will be lovely for all the kids to get along (etc)… mum just waffled on and on without taking a breath trying to pressure me and act like the last 10 years hadn’t happened…. At the end of the call she just said she needed to go and tried to go without letting me get a word in… I said ‘hang on a minute mum, I just need to make it very clear that I won’t be seeing them’…. Cue lots of tears and emotional blackmail from my mum for the next few weeks till he came!! I had massive row with my mum about respecting my wishes and my boundaries (non of which she took in)… I said a firm no and got VERY cross as she sent my DD a message literally sobbing down the phone and hyperventilating about how she didn’t know how to tell my brothers daughter that my DD didn’t want to meet her… I messaged my mum asking her not to pressure my DD as she was going through a lot herself, cue another crying text to my daughter- we didn’t speak for several weeks after that and I told her straight that it was emotional abuse!!
The following year he came again but this time with his older son and now wife…. Again pressure to meet my brothers kids with my DD…. All the family were coming this time so she wanted a picture of all the grandchildren together before my elderly nan dies etc… more emotional abuse and not respecting my boundaries… again I told her it won’t be happening and distanced myself for weeks….
Now my brother has again sprung a surprise visit which is approaching…. My mum has already asked if we will meet my brothers daughter while they’re here, I’ve asked my DD, she’s again rolled her eyes and said she’s not interested and is pissed off that everyone keeps asking…. So now with his visiting being imminent I’m waiting for the subject to arise again, to which I will AGAIN be saying NO, no doubt she’ll cry some more and me and my DD will end up avoiding my mum again for a few weeks till she’s stopped trying to guilt us!

My advice is to just say a firm no and ask your mum to respect your boundaries.
My brother and his wife have a very toxic marriage, she’s 100% controlling, 100% moved abroad to control him and isolate him… and while I emphasis I don’t want the drama they bring and I don’t want my DD around such toxic people.
I don’t regard her as my SIL or my DD’s aunt, and I wouldn’t recognise my brothers children if I sat next to them on a bus…. So also don’t regard myself as their aunt, or them as my niece/nephew…
I’ve closed off to them completely because the kids have been used to hurt us all in the past, so I’m done.
So in your shoes I’d just be telling your mum that your son sadly won’t be having much to do with nephew & the reason why, it’s up to her if this upsets her BUT she must respect your boundaries and you must stick to them.. good luck

I realised he was like this after about five years of marriage. However, I eventually left the morning after he had me pinned against a wall by the throat. I knew then I needed to get out. Called my sister after he'd gone to work, left with her and never went back. I had a few wobbles when he was being especially nice to me but I always managed to hold off committing to go back and he always let the mask slip.