AIBU to expect no conflict for being gay?

[ShyRacoon]

I often feel like i live in a world which doesn't reflect how i want to live my life and everyday there is always a struggle to get through it.

What i mean is..

im a 36 year old male, my Boyfriend is 35, neither of us are stereotypical gay men and that's perhaps why its difficult

its like there's an expectation we are straight and we have to explain everywhere we go.

and then there is the conflicts we often find ourselves in, which is the point of the post, sometimes i just want to hold my boyfriends hand, not for long we don't go skipping through the street singing "we're gay" at the top of our lungs ensuring everyone knows, its often discreet but of course if you stare long enough you'll notice. (stare being the operative word here)

people will point and whisper stuff to their friends/partner, which is not so bad, but then you get comments which fall into two categories, derogative and then aggressive

the aggressive are more concerning, not that I'm scared or afraid, I'm an ex semi professional boxer, but fighting is for the ring, i despise it in any other form and just want to have a night out without conflict.

my friends suggest its because of my build, and being gay is almost an excuse for them to start something, and i should stick to the "gay scene" which i hate for entirely other reasons, i just want to go out and be myself without any hassle, its that too much to ask?

Friday night out in Birmingham nowhere fancy just the cozy club and a group of men saw me and my boyfriend together and told us to "leave it out" and "stop or get knocked out"
that was enough for them to get evicted from the bar from onlooking security without me saying anything.

they then spent their Friday night waiting outside for 2.5 hours for us to leave to try and cause more of a scene, i just don't really understand the mindset?

this isn't an isolated incident this is every time in a town or city something similar will happen, i just dont really understand how im effecting their lives so much to ruin their own night out waiting for me?

they have nothing to gain from it, calling the police each time is just such a faff, i dont want to fight them and usually just ignore them and get into an uber.
the only way it ever becomes a crime is if its physical so consequences for actions are lacking.

is it too much to ask to be gay in 2025 and not get challenged about it?

im not even talking about huge PDAs either i too find the idea of two people regardless of gender stuck to each other like a pair of leeches in a public setting inappropriate.

am i being unreasonable, can i not hold my bfs hand at all ? i mean you cant catch gay... surely its harmless? how am i even effecting them?

idk i just feel im fighting an endless battle sometimes and i need to hide any affection outside the house, but that's not me, and every time i want to hold his hand now these daemons circle in my head worried about what people will think, say, do.

Oh yes, I understand perfectly. Sure, the OP could spend his life spitting in the face of constant abuse or maybe give up his job and go on a personal crusade to try and change society. Don't hold your breath though, that could take 200 years. But do you know what - sometimes a person's immediate wellbeing and quality of life overrides everything and if that means moving cities because of an endless onslaught of prejudice, then I don't think it's bad advice.

yes was going to say completely disagree with @BMW6 , men absolutely get affronted by lesbians too.
If they aren't considered good looking they get abuse for daring to not look fuckable. If they do consider them good looking they're affronted they don't want to have sex with them.
Remember that case in the news about the two women who got beaten up on a night bus? It was only a year or two ago.

It really annoys me on here (and there are some examples on this very thread), when people moan about someone feeling they have to 'come out' at work and say things like 'I don't tell anyone about how often I have sex and what position so no idea why people have to make such a big thing about being gay, it's 2025, nobody cares!'

It comes from a place of such huge privilege. Just because you don't care about someone's sexuality doesn't mean that nobody does. There are still people disowned by their family for being gay every day, still professions where people don't feel safe coming out or are bullied if they do, still gay jokes that people feel comfortable laughing at, etc.

If 'nobody cares' then why are there so few out professional (male) footballers, for example? Chances are for 22 men x the 60 or so squads in the first 3 leagues then at statistically least 50 or so of them would be likely to be gay or bi...if people really don't think there is any disadvantage at all to being gay in the UK as 2025, do they just assume that's a massive coincidence or there's some sort of good at football=anti gay gene or what?

OP, it's not fair for you, but you are doing a good thing - every time you and your partner do display affection in public you are slowly normalising it and things are (hopefully) getting better - just not fast enough. There are places where people don't bat an eyelid at same sex couples, and eventually that might be the case everywhere.

It's not too much to ask for. I'm a lesbian, so slip under the radar more, but people still double take when they see me and my wife holding hands or if I give her a quick peck on the cheek. Like you, I don't 'look gay' and we're both very femme. I feel like I go through life having to correct people. It's especially stressful at work, when everyone assumes you have a husband, and you have to correct them. I'm always nervous of people's reactions. We have a baby now, and for some reason, people find it baffling. People always say you shouldn't have to come out, but people don't make it easy. People also don't realise that coming out isn't a one time thing, you have to do it over and over again.

I'm more on the recieving end of some lovely classics like 'Can I watch you have sex?' and 'you won't be gay if you fuck me' from men who think they have the most magnificent penis on earth. Different experiences, but two sides of the same coin really: toxic masculinity, and good old fashioned misogyny. It's men who are the problem. I've very rarely been hassled by women, if ever. Women usually go out of their way to say 'oh lovely, I've got a gay friend' or 'good for you, everyone should love who they want to' lol. Butch/masc lesbians will have a different experience, but the femme experience is sexualisation. I'm certainly weary of showing affection to my wife in any place with drunk men, as I'm nervous of sexual harassment, and I think it's very sad I have to feel that way.

No one wants to see anyone full on snogging in public. But we should be able to walk down a street holding hands in fucking peace. It's the 21st century and I'm tired of this shit.

i don’t get it. Like you I’m not a fan of OTT PDA regardless of sexual orientation but if I see gay people out and about I just think oh there’s two people out and about. Nothing more, nothing less.

bizarre

I do have compassion. I have also had a lot of experience with men, gay and straight, treating women like their emotional support animals without showing us any compassion. OP doesn’t have the compassion/empathy needed to see that this was the other poster’s point, so I’m spelling it out for him.

Sorry op. My sister is lesbian and straight men have harrassed her too.
It's interesting that you feel more at risk because of your appearance, my sister doesn't look stereotypically gay either and has had some truly creepy pervy stuff said to her.

All sorts of people post all sorts of things on mumsnet. When a woman posts something are they also looking for ‘emotional support animals’? If you’re not interested in providing support/advice on a specific post then ignore it. Rather than posting a passive aggressive comment, pretending to be a question, that basically says “you shouldn’t be here”. The PP did not deserve compassion from OP, nor did they need you to back them up with your problems with gay men.

a few to be honest, granted nothing physically aggressive that's reserved for men, and its not a 50/50 split but women make comments too, in fact the most significant case of homophobia which left an impact on my life was from a female co-worker.

This is terrible that you are still experiencing this in 2025 I think it does depend a lot on where you live, I think big cities are probably more cosmopolitan?

I'm one of the 4% who clicked you are being unreasonable (accident).

I'm sorry this is still bloody happening. In London my gay mates say it isn't as common. They also struggle with deciding where to go on holiday, so many places are a no go. As you say it's bloody 2025!!

Given that most couples are not gay, an openly gay couple will stand out and it's reasonable to expect that will attract attention.

Abuse and comments are inexcusable, however, and you have my sympathy. All you can really do, if you want a quiet life, is to avoid the more obvious 'wrong' places. Should you have to do that? No, of course not. My friends and I looked different from the crowd when younger and we were often verbally and physically attacked just for that. Standing out for any reason will always invite problems, unfortunately, even in 2025.

There do seem to be some men for whom some sort of a dust up is an essential part of an evening out, unfortunately. For them any trigger is good enough. I have male friends who are tall and well built, and they are constantly being aggressively targeted by random blokes - usually ones who are much smaller. For a while I thought they were exaggerating and must have encouraged it somehow, but I've seen it in action several times now and have been amazed to see this completely unprovoked hassle.

I would imagine that showing any sign that you are a gay couple, however discreet, would also trigger such aggression, so maybe being gay and of athletic build presents these idiots with an irresistible target!

It must be incredibly wearing to encounter this all the time. You would certainly imagine that these days most people in a busy social venue, would be well past harbouring such homophobic sentiments. Sadly it would seem not, and I don't how you can deal with it, as the usual advice to just ignore it can end up provoking a worse reaction. This can also happen to women who have made it clear that certain male attention is unwelcome.

OP specifically said one example happened in Birmingham i.e. the second biggest city in the UK, so apparently not.
Big cities also = more people = more arseholes!

That's a shame. As many of the above comments show, the majority of women do not care or are active allies/have children who are gay. But it only takes one arsehole, of either sex, to ruin your day.
I do hope your HR took action against your co-worker. Sexual preference is a protected characteristic and bullying in the workplace is always wrong.
Take care 💗

Unfortunately my son has experienced homophobia from both men and women. When he and his boyfriend were walking through our city centre holding hands one Saturday, a woman barged straight through them to deliberately break them apart. Plenty of comments too, from both males and females. He said it tends to be younger women, which surprised me. And men of all ages.

Lately I've adopted the adage ' some people are just c*nts'.

That's all. Impossible to figure out why, but I've come to appreciate the truth of it

that was enough for them to get evicted from the bar from onlooking security without me saying anything.

Not the point of the thread, but well done to staff at the Cosy Club. this is so good to hear.

Obviously, (back to the point), YANBU. Life evolves slowly, and more slowly for the knuckle draggers. I'm sorry you have to put up with this.

I'm bi & many of my lesbian friends experience horrible fetishisation and harassment when out and about as a couple, by catfishes or theeesone hunters on dating apps. Several have had male friends try to turn them. Social media like Reddit has fetish subs like dykeconversion where men fantasise about raping lesbians straight & it's allowed bc it's a kink, while subs for lesbians that exclude trans women are banned as hateful

Yes, gay men experience violence & hatred, but the fetishisation & anger (as they reject men by defaul) that lesbians experience from men should not be ignored

Quite a lot butch lesbians I know have experienced harassment or even attempted assault, sometimes being butch even seems to motivate it. Femme lesbians get more of that, but butches are not immune.

I think gay people get less harassment - or at least feel more supported - if they live in a very small town or village where lots of people know them personally and anyone who doesn't approve will keep their opinions to themselves for fear of backlash from their neighbours.

But aren't rural areas stereotypically more homophobic? Or is this a classist stereotype?

Not being gay myself I haven't any personal experience, so maybe I am being very naive. But I do live in a small community and the few gay people I know of here don't get shunned or bad-mouthed behind their backs and join in with the usual village activities.