AIBU to expect no conflict for being gay?

[ShyRacoon]

I often feel like i live in a world which doesn't reflect how i want to live my life and everyday there is always a struggle to get through it.

What i mean is..

im a 36 year old male, my Boyfriend is 35, neither of us are stereotypical gay men and that's perhaps why its difficult

its like there's an expectation we are straight and we have to explain everywhere we go.

and then there is the conflicts we often find ourselves in, which is the point of the post, sometimes i just want to hold my boyfriends hand, not for long we don't go skipping through the street singing "we're gay" at the top of our lungs ensuring everyone knows, its often discreet but of course if you stare long enough you'll notice. (stare being the operative word here)

people will point and whisper stuff to their friends/partner, which is not so bad, but then you get comments which fall into two categories, derogative and then aggressive

the aggressive are more concerning, not that I'm scared or afraid, I'm an ex semi professional boxer, but fighting is for the ring, i despise it in any other form and just want to have a night out without conflict.

my friends suggest its because of my build, and being gay is almost an excuse for them to start something, and i should stick to the "gay scene" which i hate for entirely other reasons, i just want to go out and be myself without any hassle, its that too much to ask?

Friday night out in Birmingham nowhere fancy just the cozy club and a group of men saw me and my boyfriend together and told us to "leave it out" and "stop or get knocked out"
that was enough for them to get evicted from the bar from onlooking security without me saying anything.

they then spent their Friday night waiting outside for 2.5 hours for us to leave to try and cause more of a scene, i just don't really understand the mindset?

this isn't an isolated incident this is every time in a town or city something similar will happen, i just dont really understand how im effecting their lives so much to ruin their own night out waiting for me?

they have nothing to gain from it, calling the police each time is just such a faff, i dont want to fight them and usually just ignore them and get into an uber.
the only way it ever becomes a crime is if its physical so consequences for actions are lacking.

is it too much to ask to be gay in 2025 and not get challenged about it?

im not even talking about huge PDAs either i too find the idea of two people regardless of gender stuck to each other like a pair of leeches in a public setting inappropriate.

am i being unreasonable, can i not hold my bfs hand at all ? i mean you cant catch gay... surely its harmless? how am i even effecting them?

idk i just feel im fighting an endless battle sometimes and i need to hide any affection outside the house, but that's not me, and every time i want to hold his hand now these daemons circle in my head worried about what people will think, say, do.

Who voted he was being unreasonable? 🙈🤦🏻‍♀️

Very depressing OP.

While it has got a lot better there's still a long way to go before things are on a par with opposite sex couples.

When I first had a same sex partner in the 2000s we would often be cat called, sometimes aggressively, and once assaulted for mild pda (kissing on a night out). Now, it's much rarer to attract obvious unwanted attention, possibly because as women nearing 50, we are semi-invisible now!

That said, last year we encountered a woman having a meal in a pub with her kids who complained to the pub manager that we shouldn't be holding hands or having a kiss in public where her children could see, and the manager came and spoke to us rather than telling the woman she was being homophobic!

Very very depressing. My DD is bi and I hate the thoughts of her being at the end of homophobia. I’m so sorry for your experiences @ShyRacoon people can be utterly vile.

I think as women we are allies for you in some ways because women have lots of experiences of men are extremely inappropriate towards women on night out, nights in and everything in between. We get how unpleasant those experiences are.

I agree with you about your tactic of minimising the conflict you engage in, other people’s issues are not yours to fix even though obviously they massively impact on you.

Your sexuality is none of my business, my brother came out when he was 20, I had no idea, I told him I was proud of him for being himself. If my daughter’s suddenly came to me and said they were gay, I’d give them the same answer as I would in the future with my grandsons.

i dont either, but i am forced to daily, some examples;

Hotel -> Are you sure you want a double room -> we're gay
work (with any new client) -> are you not married? -> im actually gay
car insurance -> you can't add friends to your policy -> no we're gay and live together...
Gym membership -> Joint membership is for couples only -> yes we're gay
Every single event / venue selling a family ticket (we have an adopted child) -> family tickets are for family only -> we know were gay...

you get the idea, one day perhaps i wont have to explain

if i go to any event with a female friend instead of my bf and buy a family ticket to save money no one asks us to explain our sexual preferences.

That must be so frustrating @ShyRacoon, you would think you wouldn’t have to explain in this day and age.

high proportion of heterosexual people whos very opinion is often what i fear on a daily basis for just living my life.

this passive aggressive nonsense is exactly what im talking about, what drew you to a post with the word gay in the title and then to post something off topic?

Could you relocate to, say, Bristol or Brighton. I live in Bristol and you certainly wouldn't get that sort of treatment. Unless perhaps you went to a working men's club in the middle of a council estate.

I dont quite think you understand... The suggestion that OP has to relocate to a major city or avoid certain areas in a city in order to be able to live with the same freedoms as a man with a female partner is exactly the problem!!

unfortunatly, i can gaurentee you, regardless of venue class / price point the outcome is usually the same unless its a specific LGBTQ space.

I often dont talk about it and say "its fine" and brush off most encounters of homophobia.

for example i cant remember the last time i vocalised any of it with family members or friends who wasnt there at the time, its just more hassle that way, if i told them about every encounter it would paint a very different picture of my life, besides we wouldnt have time to talk about anything else if i did.

Male toxicity and agreession, along with unwanted comments is something women put up with daily. It is something we live with all day every day and every day just for being women. I know it is extremely unfair and I am not saying this to be unsympathetic but just for you to be realistic. There will be places where it is safer to be openly affectionate with your partner, some where it is downright dangerous and some where you will just get a lot of unwanted attention and/or comments. This happens to young women all the time just for being attractive or standing out in some way. They too are not doing anything to attarct the often unpleasant and unwanted comments.

Of course women in heterosexual couples don't get much comment but that is because a women is often only respected in a lot of public places if she is with a man. Lesbian couples very much do face this issue

The good thng about your examples is that the guys hassling you were removed from the premises so things are better than they used to be, which is not to excuse it. I agree that you should absolutely should be able to go about your business and hold hands with your boyfriend without comment but the very sad truth is that we are a long way from that yet.

crazy notion that i have to move to a more progressive or tolerant city (on paper), but Bristol while more tolerant i've still had instances there, not a working mens club either, places like the grain barge, milk thistle etc. still happens.

thankfully we were only visiting birmingham, as you're right its not a "safe" place for me.

I'm really sorry to hear that. Is it something about Birmingham? DS lives in quite a left wing, arty town. There are lots of places he can go with his boyfriend and not feel under threat. It is horrible that this is the norm for you, but it isn't everywhere.

Well that isn’t the issue is it? He’s saying he gets abuse from strangers for being himself in public.

It’s awful that same sex couples still have to face this but the only way we’ll get to a better place is continued bravery from people like yourself in showing affection the same way heterosexual couples do. I see a lot more young lesbian couples doing this lately and I hope that will make the world better for future generations.

That said, I think the poster above (“why come to mums net?”) is referring to the fact you, a man presumably mainly facing aggression from other men, have come to an overwhelmingly female website to complain. Men need to address male aggression with other men.

Honestly I’ve lost some sympathy for gay men over the past few years, having had gay male friends tell me:

1. that they are victims of the patriarchy in the same way women are
2. that women need to move over and make room for “vulnerable” men,
3. that drag isn’t offensive to women and to say it is is homophobic,
4. slurs like “bitch”, “slut” etc can be “reclaimed” by gay men.
5. and the kicker, to choose to rent a poor woman’s womb to buy a baby because they are “infertile”.

I don’t know you and perhaps you would never do any of the above, but my experience with all my gay male friends has been oblivion to their own privilege and the same misogynistic attitudes as all other men. So tempted to say, go moan about male homophobia somewhere else.

You're right. He shouldn't have to. And yet lots of us move all the time, in order to find a place where we fit in. I've only found two places in UK where I feel completely accepted. My home town where I was born and grew up is definitely not one of them. Nor is the place I raised DC for 20 years. It's not the same as being threatened, I know. But it is okay to tell yourself: this place doesn't fit my needs and standards. I will move somewhere that does. That's not an admission of defeat, imo. That's empowerment.

Sadly even in these places you experience prejudice. My cousin grew up in Brighton and has now moved to Bristol. He regularly experiences the kind of things OP has mentioned.

Really sorry to hear that and I apologise on behalf of my city. I'm surprised you had bad experiences at the venues you mention.

Lesbian here.
Homophobia in my time of being out has ebbed and flowed.
At the minute it's probably at it's peak. I try and avoid holding my partners hand in public unless it's in a "safe" area. Its shite, but no, you shouldn't have to expect conflict and you should be able to show affection, just as heterosexual couples do.

As for the "why are you posting on mumsnet", that can also be ignored.
I'm not a parent either and it's not solely a site for mothers.

The threats of violence are abhorrent, definately a male problem, and you're not going reach any of them on Mumsnet. Women, apart from religious extremists, are usually very chill about gay people, you don't threathen us.

The men you threathen are rigid thinkers, clinging to their understanding of what it is to be a man to bolster their self-esteem. Their lives may be shit, but they're great at being men, and it's an insult to them to be exposed to any other kind of masculinity. For them to attack a gay couple is a type of honour crime, as twisted as those honour crimes used to keep women into a narrow way of behaving.

And neither does OP. He just wants to do the normal things that straight people take for granted. Do you have a problem with a gay couple holding hands in public?

Have some compassion.
Life isn’t black and white. Gay men certainly do have advantages due to their sex, but they also face discrimination as a result of their sexuality. We should be empathetic given that many of our experiences (cat-calling, aggression from men etc) are shared.

I’m really sorry this kind of thing is still happening. I am also a bit shocked, as I thought it was mainly in the past rather than a thing you regularly experience.

In my world, it’s normal. No one seems to ‘come out’ as people just get on with it. Yes, there’s heteronormativity, but I think that’s inevitable when there’s a significant imbalance in numbers.

Is there anything people like me can do to change things, do you think? The people I socialise with are not intolerant, so I would rarely have the opportunity to actively ally!

I am happy to discuss on a predominantly female site. Would be curious how many comments you get from women though. My daughter and her gf have only ever had comments from men.
I think the points made by posters that this harassment is something women face on a daily basis is fair but doesn't provide an answer: None of us should feel we have to move places or be "under the radar" to stay safe and yet, many of us do.
The answer has to be in education and men becoming part of the solution in tackling the issues of masculine toxicity - being an upstander not a bystander.
The other issues you raise - form-filling, room-booking, family trips etc - are annoying but just eliciting info. People cannot/will not want to assume your sexuality either so unless the response to you saying you're gay is negative, it's just box-ticking (same as when I explain I'm a single parent for certain things).