To ask for child maintenance and nursery costs

[Sparklenote]

Seeking a sanity check please.

Ex recently left our family unit (another affair) and I now have a large mortgage and nursery fees to take care of. Mortgage is a separate issue (he’s refusing to also contribute anything there with no notice).

I have sole care of our toddler who he visits once a week with supervision due to safeguarding concerns - this is a private arrangement.

He thinks minimum CMS is fair and has added on an extra £100 to be ‘nice’.

I work four days a week and toddler is in nursery those four days. I am asking for half nursery costs on top of child maintenance which we always split 50/50 when living together. He can easily afford this plus his own rent with a lot left over. (I will be worse off as have the mortgage to bear but I do live in the house).

AIBU? Would you want more/less?
What about the joint mortgage?

I honestly don’t get it? Surely changing this would be a win for the government, in terms of the electorate and the economy?

Well, that “man” definitely moved the goal posts for op. She didn’t expect to be left. And financially, she shouldn’t be left in the shit because of a useless man with a wandering dick!

It's not fair. You are not unreasonable to ask, but I wouldn't be expecting or counting on anything above what he is legally obliged to pay. If I were you I'd be making financial decisions on the assumption you won't get a penny more than CMS requirement.

I escaped a DV situation. Was homeless and pregnant. Responsible for all childcare costs, not received any child maintenance to date. The man who abused and raped me is a millionaire.

I agree she shouldn't, but the law is what it is and has been the same for ages- morals and whatever else don't come into what someone will be legally forced to pay. Id be all for it changing, I think its fair that men pay towards their children, but OP has asked the question and its fairer to be honest rather than lie and say he will be forced to pay half when he wont.

It’s not fair. But it’s the reality I’m afraid

It isn’t fair during the nursery years, but remember it’s the same amount when they’re at school.

Hadn’t thought of this though I expect costs increase as well like clubs and hobbies.

Hopefully to reassure you, I haven't found this to be the case (yet) with DS7. Breakfast club is £2, after school care is £5 if needed. Football is £3 a session, rugby £150 a year and swimming £30 a month. Honestly the child benefit covers most of his clubs and clothing.

To the people voting YABU - in a legal sense or in a fairness sense? I’m only concerned with the last one

It's pretty irrelevant if some people on the internet think it's fair or not-if that's the law, it makes very little difference.

I would get some legal advice re the mortgage though. If you pay it, but then need to sell at some point down the line, will it be sold and split 50/50?

I would be selling now and separating from him financially-then buy something smaller and more affordable for you.

Mine are teens and they're much loved and valuable hobbies are more like £150 a month each. Their clothes are adult prices ditto shoes. They need an allowance, bus fair, phones (2nd hand android) . It doesn't really get cheaper. CMS is deliberately vague as to what it covers "contribution to essentials" so as long as the child isn't barefoot and starving on a park bench they've done their bit. Contrary to popular opinion not all single mums claim benefits. I earn a good, professional salary, similar to my ex but pay ££££ a month more than he does for their direct expenses. Hesees them about once a month so no actual parenting going on and no he wouldn't ever do 50/50 .

As the single parent of now adult children, you will have the last laugh here. I know it’s no comfort at the moment but my children are very aware of their Disney Dad’s lack of practical contributions as they were growing up.

Tell him you can’t afford the current arrangements, will be looking for 50:50, and that he will be liable for childcare/nursery on his days.

Yes I agree, the op hasn’t disclosed if they are married or were only cohabiting . A joint mortgage is a joint debt until the situation is financially resolved but how the op chooses to play this may depend on whether she is married and whether there are any other joint assets/ savings/ pensions or not. Staying in a house you can’t afford isn’t financially viable. We all know that women being left in the lurch with young kids isn’t fair but it’s why having a financial plan/ agreement in place before you ever have children is crucial.

It’s not irrelevant.

If I am able to negotiate with him further I want to put something on the table that would be fair. Therefore that’s exactly what I want - some random responses from people on the internet to get a sense of whether I’m being reasonable.

You can ask, but I’m not expecting him to say yes.

This

Unfortunately there's not a court in the land who cares whose fault the relationship breakdown is, neither do CMS.

You're not unreasonable to ask but I highly suspect you'll get it, unless you want to go to court and battle this out.

Normally, if it's 'your' day then it's up to you to sort childcare.

I think you're missing that you also have some payment responsibilities too,, for yourself and for your child. He doesn't need to pay off a mortgage for you to own a house; the previously shared property needs to be sold, with assets split. Both of you will be living in smaller homes than you could afford together, that's the reality of single life. You are responsible now for your own housing costs.

His payments are calculated with a view to paying for your mutual child's food, clothes and other expenses. You are paying nursery fees so that you can work, while you get a higher maintenance contribution for having the child more than 50% of the time. Now, it can feel unfair that his contribution doesn't pay for all the costs. If your child stays with him 50% then he would need to cover 50% of nursery fees but no maintenance, if that's what you'd prefer then you can ask him but you can't force someone to parent. CMS often doesn't add up to even a fair share of the expenses of the child, which is crap, but there isn't a get-out clause to make life fair unfortunately.

Morally, both parents should pay for half the costs of bringing up the child from earned income.

Legally, it's CMS only.

Since the current CMS system is linked into NRP's income rather than the actual costs of bringing up the child, in some cases CMS from the NRP covers their fair share and subsidises the RP, and in some cases CMS falls way short of half the costs of bringing up a child and the RP (or the state) are picking up the tab.

Regarding the house, morally I believe the person residing in the house should pay the full costs of the the mortgage, but really the house should be sold and the equity split so that both parties can move on with their lives. This almost certainly means a drop in living standards for both parties, but that's just what happens when assets from one household get split to provide for two separate households.

@mrsm43s I'd live to see the stats on where an NRP paying cms is subsidising an RP to the same degree that an RPs costs, including limited earning, limited pension contributions, inability to seek promotion etc due to childcare is subsidising an NRPs ability to do similar. Someone said the nursery costs should be borne by the RP as it allowed them to work...so should an NRP be paying childcare to the RP which is allowing them to work? 50/50 would be a perfect solution if only so many NRPs didn't refuse point blank to do it.

You need to be realistic about the prospect of keeping the house. If you can’t pay the mortgage alone and give ex his share of the equity then you need to sell the house. Whether you buy or go into rented is another question but I think it’s normal for humans not to want to pay for the mortgage on a house that they don’t live in.
How does half the mortgage compare to the CM amount ? If you want to keep the house at all costs then asking for half the mortgage instead of CM might be your only bargaining chip. Remember though that he could insist on you giving him 50% of the equity at any random moment and force you to sell legally. Selling means he can’t blindside you with a sudden demand for his equity and you aren’t increasing his share of the equity in the house. A financial clean slate is favoured rather than systems like Mesher Orders where you pay him 50% of the equity at a future date like the child turning 18 and paying the mortgage alone until then.
He only owes you CM so half of the nursery fees is extremely unlikely to happen. Have you looked into UC helping with the cost?

Have you checked what benefits you are entitled to, especially re childcare.

Can you ask for a mortgage break for a while?

Are you married?

Can you sell the house and downsize (I know that will take time)

I had it built into our consent order that he had to pay me a certain amount of child support each week plus go halves on all childcare when we were both working and half of all extra curriculas. He wasn’t happy about it at the time but now he’s used to it. I add up the costs for the month and send him a text and he transfers me the money.

This was 11 years ago and we gradually worked up to 50/50 so he doesn’t pay child support but continues to pay 50/50 of their costs (contacts, phones, lunch money, clubs etc).

If I am able to negotiate with him further I want to put something on the table that would be fair.

To him, morally fair would be the legally fair position as he’ll want to spend his money on his new life, future women etc (The deadbeat reasoning for this is because you are “keeping him away from his child” ) If you manage to negotiate what you consider morally fair then you risk him blindsiding you suddenly when he realises that you’ve “tricked” him financially.

Technically the most morally fair position is 50/50 custody and 50/50 on costs but based on the mortgage situation and the child protection angle, it can’t happen. I think it’s unfair that CM doesn’t include nursery fees but I’d look into UC first as it will be more reliable

The point is that it can't be both. NRP isn't expected to pay 50% plus maintenance. The reasonable start point is that both are responsible for 50% of costs and get 50% of time. OP needs to offer to give up time and maintenance, then her ex can decide if he does 50% nursery or something else on his own time. CMS is designed to be reasonable in affordably taking money, not in expenses, so it will rarely work out truly fair. Universal Credit assumes zero maintenance is received in any event, because nobody can be forced to parent.

What sort of salaries are you both on? And what are the outgoings? How much is he actually paying in CMS?

While you seem to think you have negotiating power on what is fair you unfortunately do not. It sounds shit to say it but he's already being generous on paying the extra £100 and could it could easily screw things up for you further if he decides not to.

If you can't afford the mortgage then you will need to get yourself on a mortgage holiday or interest only and sell the house and split it. If you weren't married this is actually easier as there's no debate on the split, it's just what it says on the titles.

I'm not pro dad's not paying their way, but the legal standpoint is the only one that actually matters in this situation. I can understand that you are probably feeling hurt and overwhelmed with it all though - I've been there myself so I really do get it.