Why are nurses always bottom of the list?

[TommyAndGinaAreHalfWayThere]

Why is it whenever public service pay rises are announced, nurses are always given less than other sectors.

I have nothing against teachers - I couldn’t do their job but why do they always get more than nurses? Genuine question.

It always seems to me that nursing is seen by the government as a “lesser job”.

Is there a wonder nobody wants to do it anymore? When I started university there were 300 students in our cohort. After one year this dropped to 200. By the time we graduated it had dropped to 150.

Off all the nurses I graduated with I would estimate that more than half have since left - myself included. I have a close friendship group from uni -

me - left after 7 years
friend 1 - left after 6 years
friend 2 - still nursing
Friend 3 - left after 4 years
friend 4 - left after 5 years
friend 5 - moved to Australia 😂

Is there any wonder? Over worked, under paid and generally treated like shit.

Exactly, not sure why some assume everyone else gets inflation matching or exceeding pay rises every year, its absolutely not the case. With shift allowances etc its not always comparable either, pretty sure most nurses aren't complaining about how unfair it is that doctors are the lowest paid in hospitals on bank holidays, just picking out the bits that support their claim.

Traditionally a woman's job and they won't complain.

I do get that and can completely see that teachers are doing that. However, so is everyone else.

Social workers are having to deal with things that would traditionally be dealt with by the CJS due to justice underfunding, and nurses and midwives are having to try to deal with safeguarding concerns that now don’t meet social workers threshold.

Tier 2 CAMHs clinicians are having to take on more and more cases that would have been Tier 3/4, and don’t have any options to refer to charities or 3rd sector organisations because so many have been decommissioned. Clinicians are having to spend so much time trying to get schools on board with (necessary) support plans, because teachers just don’t feel they have the resources to put into kids with SEN or behavioural difficulties.

All of this doesn’t mean that it’s okay that teachers are taking on responsibilities that aren’t in their job role, but it’s not something that only teachers are experiencing.

What utter bollox! This is a thread literally full of people complaining. The profession is supported by a union - if staff weren't persistently complaining, they wouldn't need a union!

How insulting to women that you judge them to be so weak they just sit back and let people walk over them. What a disgraceful comment! (And that's before we start on teachers and nurses being 'traditionally a woman's job').

Won't complain is crazy 😂 the real issue is that nurses are part of AfC which encompasses so many different NHS workers (including corporate) that any payrise has to include so many people that it'll never be as high as if they had their own bandings. Not that other healthcare staff or admin/corporate don't deserve a pay rise, but any strike action taken by nurses is essentially on behalf of others too, many of whom vote to accept offers for various reasons. Rather than campaign for better pay they'd be better off firstly campaigning to be separated out.

This is not true - doctors came out of AFC and have suffered the worse pay cuts of any health profession.

How have their latest offers been now their union has grown a backbone?

Exactly - the issue is with the union. When the union is poor, the pay offer is poor (in or out of AFC). When the union is strong, the offer is better.

have nothing against teachers - I couldn’t do their job but why do they always get more than nurses? Genuine question.

That's not true as the graph shows. It goes up to 2022, teachers have been on strike over pay since then. That's not to say that nurses haven't been shafted and don't deserve more, and solidarity with any fight you take to the government there.

The latest 4% pay rise and last year's 5.5% pay rise were both at the recommendation of our independent pay review body which went against the recommendations of the government (Tory last year, Labour this year) who both wanted much lower pay rises. The pay review body said that these pay rises were urgently needed to try to remedy the critical shortage of teachers by improving recruitment.

Honestly they will never get the raise they could as long as it has to be paid to so many others, even with a strong union; especially with the gov looking to cut a lot of corporate staff, there's no world they're going to make lots redundant and then offer a decent pay rise either. Doctors were screwed because their union at the time was absolutely crap and sold them down the river.

In my trust a few years ago, the nurses voted against a local strike. That blew my mind. There was thus no mandate to strike. I still don’t understand why they didn't vote for that. Loss of income for the strike days?

But they don't complain in the way that would make the Govt and the public sit up and notice!

That would require strike action, patients left untreated and die.

Ultimately the unions are a talking unless they can withdraw their labour... but is more shocking is this pathetic pay rise is being offered by a Labour Govt.

AfC needs to change too, it should be split between medical and non medical roles.
As a pp said, nurses on strike win a pay rise for all staff, not just themselves.

In March 2022, civil servants were offered a 2% pay increase with potential for up to 3% in some cases. In 2023, pay awards ranged from 4.5% to 5%, and 5% in 2024. and will get a 3.25% rise from April 1, 2025.

For, various reasons, I work on the NHS Bank.

We won't be getting the NHS payrise reflected in our hourly rate. We didn't get the last pay rise either.

@toomuchfaff has said exactly what I was thinking, @TommyAndGinaAreHalfWayThere. The powers that be rely on nurses’ consciences to ensure that patient care doesn’t suffer, or suffers as little as possible, despite the cuts.

most people don’t live walking distance to their place of work and there are many towns and cities with limited public transport before 7am when many shifts start. I live 10 miles from my nearest hospital and unless I walk in darkness for 6 months of the year through a rough bit of the city to catch a train I’ll need to drive. Cheapest parking for a twelve hour shift is £8 a day which is a lot on my wages.

I never had to pay for parking in any job i've had over 45 years, i don't know anyone who does either, city centre public parking charges are so high, it would make working pointless.

Most hospitals are on the edges of towns/cities and hospitals work 24/7, unlike most work places.

But as 'trusts sold off the land used for parking, the parking charges wont go away.

Its just another reason for staff to leave the NHS and work elsewhere, earning more money too.

Well clearly the fact that they're mostly women, but so are teachers, but they have better union representation. How on earth does anyone justify (male) train drivers earning so much more than nurses - as just one example?

You do know that not all nurses work in jobs with unsocial hours enhancements or very little?

Once you reach top of band 5, unless you specialise or go management (which included having to do a masters level qualification) you’re stuck there - that’s it?

You do know not all nurses etc work in a hospital setting? Or even a ‘care setting’

Where is your evidence that ‘most people’ in the NHS live close to where they work because I can tell you, in this area, it’s definitely not the case!

Oh we will be. Unite have our backs.

But that's the same as any job. You can either do the same job for the rest of your life at the same level on the same salary banding or you can progress your career up the ladder into management or specialist roles. That's literally every single job in the world.

You're only 'stuck' if you don't want to change or are not capable. You can't expect to be paid more for doing the same job (inflationary related increases excepted).

10 miles! That actually proves my point. In the private sector that would be classed as 'on your doorstep'. It's pretty commonplace for private sector workers to commute 30 or 40 miles, often much more at senior levels.

Retainment of teachers is even worse, op

It's not just nurses sadly at the bottom of the list. Obviously most NHS staff, apart from doctors, are on the same pay scales.

So whilst members of the public might agree with nurses on NHS band 5, 6, or 7, or whatever, getting a payrise, less would agree that a "manager", "Administrator" or what they might see as a pen pushes also on NHS band 5, 6, 7, deserve an increase.

Should be the same % pay rise as doctors for all NHS staff. I remember many years where we got zero % and many years where we got 1% :(