Why are nurses always bottom of the list?

[TommyAndGinaAreHalfWayThere]

Why is it whenever public service pay rises are announced, nurses are always given less than other sectors.

I have nothing against teachers - I couldn’t do their job but why do they always get more than nurses? Genuine question.

It always seems to me that nursing is seen by the government as a “lesser job”.

Is there a wonder nobody wants to do it anymore? When I started university there were 300 students in our cohort. After one year this dropped to 200. By the time we graduated it had dropped to 150.

Off all the nurses I graduated with I would estimate that more than half have since left - myself included. I have a close friendship group from uni -

me - left after 7 years
friend 1 - left after 6 years
friend 2 - still nursing
Friend 3 - left after 4 years
friend 4 - left after 5 years
friend 5 - moved to Australia 😂

Is there any wonder? Over worked, under paid and generally treated like shit.

The Forces feel the same way... and they aren't allowed a Union and not allowed to strike.

Its shit but everyone is fighting for a share of one pot.

Yes. I’m a healthcare professional and I work in the private sector. We don’t keep getting significant pay rises.

I did one job for 8 years and never had a single pay rises. Another company I worked for the most pay rise I ever got was 1.5% (other than when I got offered another job with more money and they matched it to make me stay!).

I think a lot of people who work in the public sector have a rather rose-tinted view of what it’s like to work in the private sector.

YANBU at the poor pay offer @TommyAndGinaAreHalfWayThere
YABU to talk about only nurses, as is the press. The crap inflation matching pay offer is for all AFC staff. At least nurses get mentioned.
What about the rest of us, AHPs, Pharmacists, cleaners, catering, admin, et al!

Supply and demand.

I’m not a nurse but I’m on agenda for change ( not admin) and it has irritated me this year that we have been offered the lowest. It doesn’t seem that fair tbh but when you look at private sector we have been offered a pretty good deal on paper deal. Will make a difference of about £80 to me per month I think which doesn’t cover my rise in bills but I think many people regardless of work feel like this.

As a nurse myself I think the idea of striking again is ridiculous. Really disappointed if we do vote to strike. Top band 5 is £36k in addition to unsocial hours so easily almost £40k. Starting salary is £30k plus a few thousand in unsocial hours. Start striking and we’ll rapidly lose public support, if Farage gets in say goodbye to NHS. And tbh I’ve some colleagues who do the bare minimum, including band 7s.

I work in care, and the company I work for isn’t even giving us a pay raise this year because we’re just about the minimum wage!!
They're going to be losing staff very soon!!

I agree 100% that teachers need to get paid more. That being said, I don’t like the argument that teachers are doing the jobs of social workers, counsellors etc.

I think it devalues the skills of these professionals (which you need formal education and training to do). The safeguarding work that teachers do is important, but nothing compared to the complexity that social workers manage. Same with counselling- it’s not just having a bit of chat.

For the record, I do think nurses, teachers and other public sector workers all deserve a significant payrise. I work in the private sector and have noticed ever increasing numbers of talented people moving across from the public sector because it makes more financial sense.

However, personally I always notice that it’s civil servants who are bottom of the list when pay rises are announced. This worries me as some very important (failing) services are delivered by civil servants, like the prison service. I also notice that social workers often don’t get much of a mention!

I’ve just retired from nursing. I certainly won’t train again in my next life

Can you provide some evidence that nurses get less or lower pay rises than other sectors? What are you basing this on? You say 'always' so maybe taking this over 20 years, how have other public sector salaries changed. I would hazard a guess that you are wildly wrong but I am not sure and I really hope you are wrong. It would be interesting to see the truth.

Nurses are the backbone of the NHS, they're highly skilled professionals and it's disgusting in my view that on top being underpaid they are expected to fork out extortionate amounts of money to park at the hospital where they work, especially as their shifts usually mean public transport isn't an option.

I also think school support staff often get completely forgotten on these threads. It's not just TA's and HLTA's, most schools now have specialist support staff including Inclusion Mentors, non-teaching Safeguarding Leads, non-teaching Heads of Year/House and Pastoral Managers, Associate Senco's, all on exploitative term time only contracts for absolutely shit pay. They are often highly skilled and dealing with children with really complex needs, sometimes taking on MLT and even SLT level responsibilities but for an absolute pittance.

Looking at data it seems all the sectors are getting rises between 3and 4%. With nurses not being the lowest.

We all know they all deserve more.

Also, do people know that many soldiers are actually below minimum wage? Regular troops will obviously have lower living costs, but Reserves don't.

NHS AfC have been offered 3.6% compared to local authority staff being offered 3.2%. This is on the back of NHS staff being offered far bigger rises than LA staff for several years.

Not sure on which basis you think that nurses get offered the least? In my experience, NHS staff tend to get the highest of the public sector payrises.

This. See also care work.

Yep.

It’s also very interesting to see what’s happened to pay, conditions and public attitudes to medicine since women have increasingly entered the profession (and now dominate). Same attitude of suck it up/it’s a vocation etc etc despite the great personal costs (including financial) to train and progress.

The NHS has relied for far too long on the goodwill of all its staff - doctors, nurses, domestics, porters, pharmacists, physios, occupational therapists, admin etc etc.

JWhipple Agree totally! Some of my family and friends are Teachers .One got made redundant as they had been there 20 odd years (presumably too expensive) Another burnt out as Head Teacher. I voted for Labour this time, due to having Chemo ,and seeing how hard the beautiful nurses (like an Angel)worked .Myself and 2 others .doing paperwork as well.They are always seen as having a "vocation"yes but also a Gas bill as well!

I know 3 people who recently went into nurse training. Two have dropped out as they found it too hard on placement. One is still hanging in there, but as a young mum she has to work 3 12 hour shifts a week which she gets a pittance for, so she has another part time job to make ends meet and on top of that has to study. Her childcare costs far outstrip any income she makes.

Like others have said, it's undervalued because it's mostly women who are nurses, same as other care work. Compare this to train drivers who earn significantly more and are mostly men

Because government policy is to import careworkers these days. That's why our immigration policy is so appalling, as we need immigrants to do jobs that British people don't want to do. As if they are some sub class.

Nursing and Health care in general, seems to be treated as a "Vocation" and not deserving of a decent wage.

Or the right wing say "Well you knew what the salary/conditions are... suck it up or leave..."

Low wages not helped by staff parking charges and student loan repayments.

I think it’s politically motivated. The doctors have a much stronger union than the nurses and are much more prepared to go on strike. The government knows this and wants to control the optics as much as possible. The general public are far less likely to get behind ‘greedy doctors’ striking when they are getting a higher % increase than nurses, who historically have been an easier push over with regards to industrial action.

The fact that both % increases are pitiful is beside the point. It’s the comparison that will be remembered by the tax paying public.

It’s local government workers who are bottom of the list. Hammering local government in funding suppression is an easy win for central government as they don’t get the blame for poor local services, Councils do. There are Councils who’ve gone bankrupt. We’ve had decades of mass job losses ( two thirds of my entire section, not just team, in my last Council) and plenty more to come. Huge reduction in real time wages. I go to ( free) events put on by Health boards or the civil service or quangos with their lovely lunches. We can’t even offer tea and coffee, let alone digestive biscuits, to people attending meetings and events we put on. I was refused permission to attend a free UK conference of a major initiative I am involved in as my council could not afford the £18 fare for me to get to the neighbouring city it was on in. We get no training if it costs money and a near total ban on travel expenses.

its pretty obvious to me that Local government is the poor relative in public services.

Don't bite. She pops up on almost every thread and posts inflammatory statements to get a rise out of others...

Train drivers can go on all out strikes, thats why they get paid more, if nurses just walked out and let people die, they'd soon get a pay rise, last years strikes were the first ever by the RCN...

The nurses industrial action is almost pointless, the conditions on staffing levels mean that at most, appointments postponed... woo weee!!!

Nothing to do with being male, its just that 'drivers can strike without people dying.