Was I wrong to refuse sale at work urgent advice needed

[LemonBlueberryX]

So this morning at work (I work in retail - but not a supermarket, think along the lines of b&m), someone came in and tried to buy an item. I was working on the till. When they came to the till I felt frozen on what to do as I didn’t feel comfortable selling this item in these circumstances (based on a stereotype of what this person looked like). I asked for ID (it’s a look25 item) hoping they wouldn’t have it so I could refuse sale but they did. After that I felt I had to make a choice and so I refused sale. Because of things that have happened in my area recently I felt that by allowing this sale I would be personally contributing to bad things.

They kicked off and asked for the manager who came over and asked me why I refused the sale and I just froze and couldn’t answer. Manager took over the till and served the person. The rest of my shift went on as normal but Managers just whatsapped me an hour ago asking me to come in at 10 tomorrow for a chat. I don’t work saturdays so not usually in. What do I say?

I dont really want this getting back to my manager so have tried to be vague about said item

Personally I honestly don’t think you should worry too much. Just be very open with your manager. Something didn’t give you the right feeling and felt off, and you didn’t feel comfortable selling a single kitchen knife to someone. That’s what happened, and that’s not unreasonable.

hasn’t there been something in the news this week about making it harder to buy knives?

I would rather make an incorrect judgement and offend someone trying to innocently buy a knife…than make the wrong judgement and them go on to do something awful

He absolutely could and quite possibly did. In a way, it’s irrelevant.

As long as he meets the criteria, he can buy the knife for any purpose of his choosing.

Honestly, as someone who’s done retail, they put the absolute fear of god into you when it comes to selling stuff to potentially underage people. Knives are 18+. Id say you weren’t comfortable selling to him because he didn’t look 18 to you, even if his ID said otherwise, they’re easily faked these days, and you were scared of being fined thousands of pounds and losing your job.

Unless they're a budding chef there's not many 18yr olds buying kitchen knives.

And the budding chefs will likely buy a set……

I think it's one of those cases where your gut came into play. Something was off where it was the single knife, the customer's behaviour etc, something made you feel uncomfortable.

You may have been right or wrong but it's very hard to override gut instinct in a case like that.

Your manager made a different decision, again rightly or wrongly, who knows.

A decent manager will understand. A less automous manager will be more concerned about a discrimination case etc. That said, a discrimination case will have no legs when ultimately he got served in the end. I wouldn't worry about it.

You know if a knife crime was committed directly after leaving the store, everyone would be asking where did he get it, did they not realise it was odd circumstances, who buys just one etc?

Sometimes you can't win but you did what was right for you.

I could very well be wrong but I think this may be a bit of a grey area because cafes and restaurants are allowed to charge different prices for children’s menu than they are adult menus. Surely if they had to follow as strict guidelines under the equality act as day an employer they wouldn’t be able to do this because age is a protected characteristic under the EA.

You felt uncomfortable with the sale and I completely understand why.

For your meeting tomorrow there’s a voluntary code used by a lot of retailers on the sale of knives Here. Is your employer listed or signed up? Have you had training on selling knives? Depending on the tone of the meeting, they may just want to offer training, if not in your situation I’d be tempted to say you were confused about the age at which you can sell knives. Cite IKEA using a cut off at age 21.

If it happened again would you sell the knife? If not, this probably is not the job for you.

Feel free to go and have a read of the Equality Act 2010 and come back and tell me what the protected characteristics are.

A lot of teenagers look a bit older than they are, so if you only challenge people who look younger than 18, you will be letting a lot of underage people buy booze and knives. So the retail and hospitality sectors introduced the Look 25 policy, basically so that unless you look a LOT older than 18 (i.e. 25) they will ask for ID, just to be sure.

I think it's all too easy to condemn the OP here. We don't know if the OP has previously had a knife pulled on her, or has a family member caught up in knife crime. It's best just to go in and talk to your manager tomorrow but if they want to take any formal action, then please do stop the meeting and get advice from your union. I can understand the dilemma totally. Nobody wants to be the person who sells somebody a knife only for them to turn up on the news having done something horrific. I've lived in different places and done different jobs and my perception of risk has varied over time and location.

Of course they would because it’s not the same food being offered at a different price based on age. It’s entirely different food.

Bloody hell calm down! I’m sure the Op doesn’t need to hear this she’s worried enough as it is
Op you were trying to do the right thing and it’s hard in retail now having the responsibility of selling knives, especially the way the world is now
I hope your meeting goes well for you
Also it’s usually the ones that shout loudest and make the most fuss that are dodgy in my experience, when I’ve refused a sale

the law is on your side here.

I would say to your boss that you did not feel confident or comfortable for this youth to buy such a knife and as far as you can see, that the responsibility would have been on you if anything happened, so you made the decision to refuse the sale.
Ask if there is any training available to clarify

So you can buy or rent a house at 18, but not buy any knives for the kitchen. That sounds sensible 🤣🤣

I would not have felt comfortable selling a knife to an eighteen year old either regardless of what colour their skin was.

This is utter bollocks, if your manager sees you making a discriminatory decision it needs to be addressed and rectified.

if you were a manager who had seen their employee refuse to sell a wedding cake to a homosexual couple due to their beliefs would you just stand by and let it happen?

You sound very sensible and switched on. Thank you for trying to do something that didn’t look or feel right to you. We need more people like you.

If you don’t want to go into work on your non working day to have this ‘chat’ you could just say you aren’t available.

You're getting a hard time here OP but for what it's worth I'd have done the same as you under the circumstances you describe and your manager is a shower of shite for not backing you up.

Which law?

I haven't read all your posts. I might be misinterpreting something.

If you thought the ID the customer produced was not the true likeness of the person (a nicer way of saying you thought the customer turned up with someone's else's ID to buy a knife) then you had a reasonable reason to refuse the sale.

From my experience, going into too many details makes things worse.

If you are still worried, call ACAS helpline tomorrow at 0300 123 1100, they open at 9. Call as soon as they open, sometimes you need to wait for 15-20 minutes before being connected to an advisor.
ACAS https://www.acas.org.uk/

I hope it helps

Well. After reading through this thread, it’s no wonder there’s a knife crime problem in this country.

We are more concerned with offending someone and being discriminatory than the reason why they are buying the knife. I stand with OP all the way, she was the one serving, she followed her gut. If this guy was on the news the next day she would’ve blamed herself.
I honestly have no idea how this can be policed. But OP clearly had a vibe off this guy. Is that wrong? I don’t know. But gut feelings stand for a lot, it’s human instinct.

You did the right thing in my eyes, I don’t care if this young lad was offended.

I think you can actually. If you work in Tesco you can't sell monster to a kid in school uniform or alcohol to someone who appears under 25 or a copy of The Shining to a 15 year old. The OP has seen something that doesn't feel right and she's used her own judgement which is exactly what shop workers have to do day in day out for various items.