Winter fuel payments

[dearydeary]

I have just heard on the news that this is being discussed again and they are considering reinstating them.

While I think that people who are on a lower income (pension credit for example) may need additional help I do not think this should be a universal benefit any more.

It appears the government is still looking for votes. What about everyone else in society? Younger people at universities or just starting out? Individuals with disabilities?

Surely we need to be moving to a more means tested approach as the finances need rebalancing?

Where pensioner need help, I am happy to support but many older folk have benefited from good pensions, valuable house price increases and a stable employment market. This is not the situation for many of us any more.

Have I lost the plot?

Here is Starmer’s full comment on the winter fuel payment in his answer to Sarah Owen. He said:

I recognise that people are still feeling the pressure of the cost-of-living crisis including pensioners. As the economy improves, we want to make sure people feel those improvements in their days as their lives go forward. That is why we want to ensure that as we go forward more pensioners are eligible for winter fuel payments.

As you would expect Mr Speaker, we will only make decisions we can afford, that is why we will look at that as part of a fiscal event.

So not quite a u-turn. More like a promise of jam tomorrow (in the form of a higher threshold as blossomtoes rightly points out).

Yes I suppose it is jam tomorrow.

Now pensioners even on just the state pension are having to pay tax and yet people on benefits don't pay a penny in tax even though lots of them get far more money than pensioners do.

The state pension is a benefit. Why do you think people who receive benefits don't pay tax?

Forgot to add that means testing is very expensive and time consuming. It's surely cheaper and easier to calculate payments via HMRC.

it's all very well saying don't let the nasty oldies have anything, but when Gran dies and you all come to share out her stuff there will be less to pick through.

People aren't having dc as they can't afford them so no one to pick through Grans stuff.

Which is probably what they’ll do. Tax paying pensioners won’t get it. Which is what they should have done in the first place.

If Starmer and Co think the WFA fiasco has made them unpopular, they really don't want to see how unpopular they'll be if they dare to raise taxes on working people who are already bearing the brunt of costs of living rises, housing costs, taxes on wages, student loans, NIC hikes, low wage rises (if any), child care costs, etc etc. Starmer won't know what's hit him if he even tries it!

The workers are the last group we should be increasing taxes on!

Any tax rises need to be spread more broadly over EVERYONE, including pensioners, so would need to be on VAT, scrapping NIC and raising income tax (no effect on workers), or NIC on other income like pensions, property letting, etc., scrapping/reducing ISAs and personal savings allowance, etc. We need to tax "passive" income more, i.e. on investments etc., certainly NOT on wages.

@Badbadbunny not popular though & people would rather vote reform.

Except nobody has called anyone nasty, merely pointing out the support needs to be means tested. 🫣

There are several ways they could fix this.

There are a few groups of people who are problematic here.

1. is the group of people who could get the WFA but are not claiming pension credit. The supposition is, older people don’t want to claim benefits because they are too proud. More time and resource needs to be spent making sure those who are entitled get the help they need. Pension Credit should be increased by the amount of the WFA so it’s one benefit that covers both of these.
2. is the group of people who just miss out on WFA because they are below the threshold to claim pension credit but who still struggle. These should be able to apply for WFA with a cut off for entitlement.
3. is the group of people (I call them Schroedingers pensioners) who proudly claim they have worked all of their lives and paid into the system and never took a penny from the government (except for all the financial benefits that were given to working people in the 80s and 90s, the easy availability of social housing, and the triple locked pensions they get which they conveniently ignore) and are “too proud” to claim benefits, but also are pissed off the government is taking away WFA they don’t need, because they “deserve” it. - (yeah, looking at you my mum and dad) These people should be completely ignored, because they rarely vote Labour anyway and aren’t a big enough group to swing an election (hopefully). They should be reminded that their children and grandchildren will be paying for their excesses in the 1980s and 1990s by working longer, having a much leakier welfare safety net, and having far less chance of social mobility.

WFA is simply being used as a political tool to beat Labour with, giving Reform a chance to get a better foothold. Shamefully the nation has fallen for it.

WFA is simply being used as a political tool to beat Labour with, giving Reform a chance to get a better foothold. Shamefully the nation has fallen for it.

In a nutshell. Absolutely.

My parents are whining theirs has been removed. They definitely don’t need it. If I am picking over anything when they die, I’d be happy with that as the extra money I pay in tax per year because I live in Scotland is almost exactly equal to the WFA. Funny when I mentioned that to them they said if I earned more I should pay more tax. I agree entirely with them. I don’t begrudge paying higher taxes. What they miss is the irony of them believing as well off pensioners they are entitled to money they don’t need, but as a well off working person, I’m expected to do my bit to help others.

It needs to be means tested but the entry point at the moment (eligible for pension credit) is too low.

I know pensioners on the old system who are already collecting wood for next winter because they are genuinely worried, and they don't qualify for pension credit.

I hope the govt will set eligibility at somewhere near £15k income. It's currently just under £12K. Anyone with an income less than that (and often in older, less well insulated homes) needs help. These are elderly people, with no earnings potential, at home all day, less mobile and more susceptible to the cold.

They need to make the threshold high enough so that no pensioner on Pension Credit gets more that those that don't get it, PC opens doors to other free things so pensioners just over the threshold get less.

Oh yes I forgot, because pensioners don't have any other bills to pay apart from food and fuel. 🙄

She’s part of the silent generation not a baby boomer.

All media outlets (including the Guardian) are describing at as a u turn.

STOP PRESS:
Starmer has done a u-turn on winter fuel payment cuts

www.theguardian.com/society/2025/may/21/keir-starmer-confirms-u-turn-on-winter-fuel-payment-cuts

The problem they gave themselves was linking eligibility to Pension Credit, which is one of the most underclaimed benefits.

Even with lots of campaigns to raise awareness there are huge numbers of people who don’t claim. And means testing is difficult and costly.

So the question is, is it better to deny people who need support in case some get it who don’t need it, or give it to everyone and be confident that those who need it have it?

It’s not though, is it?

It's better to link it to actual need.

Well it’s certainly backtracking at its best isn’t it?

You do know it’s called the Winter Fuel Allowance? 🙄

It maybe something to do with the 240+ question form you have to fill in, some of these folks are not on the internet to help them either.

No, it’s making an adjustment.