AIBU- I don’t want to “spoil” my kids

[Magicboobies]

I know this is a very privileged problem to have but here goes…I’m terrified my partners spending and buying all the time is going to make my kids entitled.

I grew up with parents constantly budgeting etc and have always been frugal. Me and my siblings were always looked after fine as kids but may not have had top spec toys etc. I have been with my partner 11 years, we met at university and I had next to no spare money whilst studying and working. DH was supported well financially by his family through his studies, but I didn’t realise how much they gave him till after we were married. We both have moderate incomes in same profession and are very fortunate that my in laws have gifted my DH a lot of money along the way including the giving DH the money for our mortgage recently.

Since having children I’ve realised whilst DH grew up he was just given anything he wanted, none of this saving up or no you can’t have all those toys for Christmas , anything that was mentioned was bought. He has started doing similar. We have discussed it many times - I’ve said the kids don’t need all these things. Constantly clearing out, giving to charity shops etc. (which is a whole different saga, MIL stated recently something about how giving to charity not saving it for your own kids / grandkids is ridiculous). Latest is , I’ve just started teaching the 5 year old piano. DH asked me if he can buy him a guitar. I said why dont we focus on the piano we have just started , see how he gets on in the next year, if he’s into music maybe. DH seemed to agree with this. Next week a guitar arrives in the post. Despite DH having multiple guitars himself both here and at his parents house. When I question him on this he’s like why can’t I buy him one if I want to I’m excited about it and he will be too, don’t punish him because you didn’t have as much growing up.

In laws seem to have kept EVERY toy from DHs childhood and gift them to kids whenever we visit. I’m shocked at how she still able to bring more from the loft each time (and why she has kept everything, like lots of it is c.r.a.p fake gemstones from a trip to a theme park. )

Personally I don’t think it does kids any harm to have to save up for something, to want something and not be able straight away to have multiple versions of the same toy. I know we have the means to do it but it seems wasteful and silly to me, maybe because of my upbringing. I’ve tried discussing with DH how spending time is much more valuable then he seems to get himself excited whenever some new venture is started.

Ultimately, you have different views and you need to meet in the middle on this one because that's what a good partnership does, and he's not currently wanting to budge because I think you both see it as all or nothing. Maybe you need to sit down together and figure out what that compromise looks like.
So assess it into different streams:
Saying yes to everything, like random sweets and toys when you go out
Taking in grandma's stuff
Buying items without even thinking about saying no
Etc
Write it down, so it's clear where it's all happening, and then try and figure out either a compromise in each stream, or say 'okay if we are taking in grandma's stuff, that means we don't say yes to sweets/toys on random trips, and only buy a couple things each for them a month, as opposed to the xx amount we are buying now.'
You need to be clear where your preference is first, so that when it's laid out it's clear you are meeting in the middle, not him coming to your side as you are still saying yes to more than you'd like.
Just a suggestion - also who is doing the majority of the tidying/clearing out of this additional stuff?

If it was one maybe, but she obviously gave that example as one of many.

And she is right, he has just started piano and hasn't shown interest in learning the guitar yet he has already bought him a guitar. Why can't the kid start learning with one of the many guitars already available and when he shows promise you can buy him one? The guitar is most likely just going to sit there gathering dust and taking space and will not really be used by the child

Why do they get to decide what happens especially MIL??

"YABU. If you afford for the kids to get it, you should get it"

Yes for things the kids need not just buying random mounds of crap because you can afford especially when we all know they will use it once or twice, lose interest and then it just sits there taking space.

I would agree with you if she was depriving her kids things they need and saying no fun at all but she is saying moderation.

Teaching kids to delay gratification in some cases is an essential skill, they don't need every single piece of plastic crap just because they ask or you can afford it. It's also important to teach your kids that sometimes you cannot get everything you want and may have to make choices about what you want v what you need.

Because that’s a decision they can make together, it’s not some random instrument, it’s one he plays, why does OP just get final say that the kid is doing piano? I can’t imagine a scenario where DH wants to do something with our children and I say “no don’t do that because I’m doing this instead”. And some women wonder why they end up being burdened with everything.

Where did it say that he plays the guitar, the child has literally just started learning piano and he has gone and bought him a guitar despite the fact they have numerous and I repeat numerous guitars in the house and MILs house.

OP has a say because as she said she ends up having to deal with pile of junk not DH or MIL. She's the one helping the kid with the lessons and knows what he needs while DH is just buying out of excitement and lack of control.

Again if it was one of or once in a while I would see your point but this seems to be a consistent issue with DH buying stuff they don't need and MIL buying and also gifting random pieces of crap she has kept from DH childhood that they don't need.

And yes as you said they should make the decision together but that's not what's happening, DH and MIL are doing what they want now without input from OP or any regard for what she thinks.

I’m only focussing on the guitar, he owns guitars at both his parents house and his home, if it turns out he in fact does not play guitar that’ll be a convenient drip feed from the OP that changes that example entirely. I don’t disagree with the OP entirely, but just because she’s got a point on one element, doesn’t mean she is entirely right, and I think from what has been written she’s being controlling, the kid has 2 parents, why should one dictate what the kid can do. They can learn 2 instruments.

I am open to this. I just struggling with what do when they’re not appreciative other than to stop buying them stuff. Probably I draw in my own parenting when I parent.
what would be your parenting strategy? My parenting instincts are to not buy them extra toys when they’re not appreciative. How do you not “allow them to do whatever they want and get away with being rude or disrespectful” otherwise ? :)
for context eldest is 5.

My dad grew up in poverty and when he started earning very well he was very generous with his money (to family and friends as well as us kids). As adults I am financially independent and do not expect anything from my parents. My 2 younger brothers still rely on them heavily even though they are in 30s/40s and have families of their own. They are definitely spoilt. The difference is my brothers were the 'babies'. Simple things like me getting part time work while I was still at school where they just got given money by my parents, me cooking my own food from teen years and them still being cooked for all made these small differences over the years. Me and dh are very comfortable financially but we have never gone overboard with our kids. Yes they have had some nice holidays and they did have a decent amount of toys when younger. But when they started heading into adulthood we were clear they needed to work (for self confidence as well as money and experience). Dd is at uni and she still works full time in the holidays to save as working during term time isn't possible on her course. Ds wanted to leave school at 16 so went into an apprenticeship and we told him he needs to save or pay rent so he saves. Can we afford to not have them do these thing? Yes. But it wouldn't do them any favours. I think buying too many toys is a waste but I don't think it will necessarily make them spoilt. Taking family for granted, being rude and disrespectful, not doing your bit in the home etc is where issues start.

We weren't poor, but there really wasn't money to waste. I genuinely think I get more joy as an adult through being able to buy myself stuff. If you set that high norm early on it's hard to get excited about much.

OP clearly said that the 5 year old just stated piano so no the kid doesn't play the guitar. If you mean DH maybe he does but it still doesn't change OPs point.

And she isn't opposed to getting him a guitar or teaching him/her guitar she said he/her has just started piano so let's see how it goes and maybe next year if the kid is learning and progressing we can add guitar and he agreed then turns around and impulsively orders a guitar without telling OP. And again why can't the kid start learning with one of the many guitars already available and if the kid shows interest or promise get their guitar?

He seems to lack self control and just buys buys buys because he can afford it and he doesn't see the need to consider OPs input. The core issue is he agreed to wait with OP then goes behind her back and orders it because he was "excited".

yes my husband does play the guitar every few weeks. I mentioned he owns guitars because my DS could have start playing one of those before spending out on his own guitar if he was interested in it. My worry with the guitar is he’s only just started learning the piano, I didn’t want him to quickly get bored and move onto the guitar. That is why I had suggested some time first. If he wanted to learn both of course that would be ok.
Part of my concern was husband seemed to agree with me during this discussion then just bought one anyway impulsively rather than saying actually this is something I really want to do with DS, this is my plan for it. He won’t find time to teach DS himself and hasn’t planned any lessons for him so it will sit in the corner going to waste along with many other things

Learning to make financial choices is important - do you want to spend pocket money on sweets every week, or use it to save up for that toy you really want? It's your money, your choice, but you can't afford both. Sometimes DD has done one, sometimes the other and that is genuinely fine with me. Only she can decide what her current priorities are - and whether a longer term aim is worth short term feelings of doing without.

Because as adults the reality is the majority of us won't have unlimited funds. Do I want to spend my earnings going out every weekend? Or save up - maybe for an exciting holiday or for a deposit to buy my own home.

I know all too many people who spend on all the everyday impulse buys but then envy other people for the holiday, or paying off the mortgage (because they consistently over paid from day 1, and went without other things to do so). They also tend to be the people who are paying a chunk on credit card interest every month.

Plus the materialism, overconsumption and clutter would annoy me.

Haha! your husband is very effectively demonstrating how an adult behaves when they have had every whim indulged as a child.
He is unable to defer gratification - even when he has agreed with you that he will wait to get another guitar
even worse would be if he deliberately misled you and just agreed to defer just to shut you down - this would be treating you with contempt

Thank you this is really helpful

And what else could that money have been spent on? What are your financial priorities?

There's the opportunity cost of not using that money for something else. It sounds as if you are financially comfortable now, but what if that changed in future? Would you be happy with your (joint) financial choices, or would you have preferred less impulse buying and more savings? Or when your children are older, do you want to be able to support them at university or with a deposit? Is a guitar more of a priority?

Maybe you need to talk with your DH about your medium and long term financial priorities, then work backwards. If he's never had to make choices then.maybe it has never occurred to him that there are other things he may want to use the money for, longer term.

I think “spoiling” is often down to attitudes rather than simply a volume of stuff - my child has a lot of a certain theme of toy but he cherishes it, collects it, is very appreciative etc and isn’t spoiled. He does know we can afford to get him new sets (to be fair we don’t get them all the time “just because” but birthday/ xmas or a special occasion), but he also doesn’t demand them or expect them.

HOWEVER we do make sure we chat about things like value (age appropriate) and how not everyone has the same, why our things are special, and we do get involved within our community/ local beach charities too. I don’t want him thinking it’s normal or a given that he’ll just always have things. Also show him the things he does rather than just what he has, is what’s most valuable. So it’s more about them rounding out? You can’t make your kids feel guilty necessarily that they are clearly more privileged than some, in the same way they can’t grow up to expect everything, all the time. It’s a balance.

I agree with you OP, but I’m lucky that me and DH are on the same page. We didn’t grow up poor and for me it’s not just about not spoiling them, it’s also about not being materialistic. I don’t like waste, I don’t like gratuitous consumption and I don’t think you should use acquiring things as a way of making yourself happy. It sounds a bit like your DH does this - buys things because new stuff is exciting.

As with anything in a marriage though it’s about communication and compromise. You need to clearly articulate your perspectives and agree a way forward, and then stick to it! It’s no use agreeing not to buy something and then doing it anyway.

Part of the issue here, I think, is that this doesn't seem to be actually about the kids and what they want. In the guitar example, the child hasn't been whining and begging for a guitar (not that that would make it ok to buy one).

This feels like what husband wants the kids to have based on his interests, etc. How much of the buying is like this? Is he just chucking money about without thought? Does he equate 'things' with 'love'?

Knowing what kids need and also what they want and why they want it is important. It's not just about arbitrarily imposing unnecessary budgeting on your kids as one PP suggested. The act of not buying your kids lots of stuff gives their growing minds room to work out what they want and how much they want it, the difference between 'need' and 'want' and what interests THEM as separate people from their parents.

It doesn't sound like he's really doing this 'for the kids'. It sounds like he's satisfying a need he has, not a need they have.

I'm with you @Magicboobies . There is something special about wanting/dreaming of something and to wait for it.

Both my partner and I grew up similar to how you were raised. But my partner has adjusted to having more disposable income much quicker than I have so it feels similar. It’s not the ‘spoiling’ of the kids that bothers me such much as the mindless consumerism and the stuff that inevitably ends in house clutter and ultimately landfill.

if it’s a big thing either in terms of sophistical size or cost I ask my partner where’s it going to go / who’s going to clean it etc type questions. And frequently ask him to leave it in his basket on an open tab for at least 2 weeks then see how he feels. Often it’s the impulsive shopping and endorphin hit buying something gets.

I think it is not helpful for the children to have lots of 'stuff', and the guitar example just sends the wrong message - it creates confusion, and distraction, and personally I think it undermines you: not only had you agreed not to buy this, but YOU are teaching him the piano, and suddenly it's like DH is subtly suggesting not doing piano, but another instrument (unless you can teach this too....).

We have money, and are surrounded by people who are extremely wealthy. The ones who use their wealth best are the ones who channel it in family experiences, for instance :

• nice / frequent holidays, staying in pleasant (but not necessarily 5 star) hotels, doing all the expensive things (that children don't realise are expensive) like boat trips / hiring boats, going skiing, going on safari etc.

• Going for meals out or having nice takeways, sushi etc. If you can eat out at weekends for instance, that makes the weekend experience much more enjoyable, and children love eating out

• Lots of trips: theatre, musicals, various shows (horse show, dog show, flower show etc).
• Private tuition in things that matter to them - eg: individual tennis or cricket coaching, from a young age, sometimes multiple times a week. Same for music, or art, and later school support. So for instance a good friend of mine (wife of premiership footballer) never fights with their kids about homework, because they get a tutor to come several times a week who does it with the children. The children of that same premiership footballer are saving up their pocket money to buy things from Smiggle, or having to wait for their birthday. And they are very well behaved and brought up, not spoiled at all.

Those children have a really nice life, and all of the things above 'enhance' the family life (nice memories, avoiding some of the challenges around boring mealtimes / dull weekends / boring school holidays and 6 am flights or crappy hotels, having to carry sandwiches around), but they are not spoiled, because they don't get given too many of the material things,

I have always read that the worst thing for a child is to never 'want' anything, and have the joy of getting it after a wait, because everything is given too soon. They become jaded very quickly.

And on the MIL thing - just tell her you don't have the space for the stuff she brings, and that it's much nicer for the children to be able to play with all these wonderful things WHEN THEY COME OVER TO HERS. That's what I do with my MIL.

I agree. I spend a lot on DDs hobby - but she is passionate about it and puts in the hours and the effort.

That's the deal, as her mother I provide as much as I can financially, and when she was younger getting her to classes and hanging around to bring her home (she can now go on public transport). The flip side is she puts the work in.

She has now (mid/late teens) reached a point where she earns her own money coaching the younger ones. Her teacher was clear that it wasn't just her technical skills, but also her work ethic in being asked to become an assistant.

She is proud of being able to not rely on pocket money, and makes choices about spending her earnings - sometimes on what I think is absolute crap 😂 but makes her happy. She knows how to make financial choices, and when her priorities change her decisions will change.

Basically valuing relationships and experiences over 'stuff'. I would agree with that. Especially if some of the experiences were low cost.