I think I'm potentially a lost cause

[Isitameproblem]

Super quick context, for the past 15 years I've lived a fairly isolated life, probably the last 14 have been much worse because I've worked remotely.

I've ttied to socialise and put myself out there but over the years it has never really come to much. If anything what I miss is the talking to someone in person who isn't my DH. For the same reason, I think I've never really assimilated really well, and I've never felt like I belong anywhere.

My only two real friends are back in my birth country and I rarely see them. One of them is visiting me for a week. But honestly I've found that I get way TOO intense and I don't know if it's the concept of having someone around who's not my DH, or actually having someone to talk to.

I can see it's not good, but I don't know how to improve in that sense.

BTW I've learned to live in my "loneliness" I know that people won't necessarily get me, and that what I would want to talk about is not necessarily of their interest, so I'm totally ok with that now. At least I have a mum I talk to on a very regular basis, and she's like my "water cooler" chat.

All I've been telling her is that not having someone to share your ups and downs is kind of sad, and that sometimes you just want to have a good cry with someone, but again I'm kind of used to it by now. What I yearn is day to day interaction, because you'd normally get that from work and I obviously I don't get it. But again realising at least I get that now, I think I'll probably get my "fix " that way.

Sorry I'm rambling and thanks for reading

But that was one thing you tried that didn’t get a response. It’s like swiping right on Tinder, not getting any interest, and deciding that’s that.

And I think that you’re limiting yourself needlessly because of your perception that ‘fellow mothers’ are boring unless they also have corporate jobs. I was only one of two non-SAHMs when DS was in Reception, and the other was a medic so I almost never saw her, but I don’t need to only hang out with fellow-academics…

This, what @Isitameproblem all other mothers are boring?
In what way?
Agree, it's a you problem!

Yes BUT only my DH is in person. It's a massive load on him.

Sounds like you need to get some hobbies, do some volunteering, and be a bit more open to making friends with your children's friends' parents. The fact you say you find other mothers 'boring' rather suggests you haven't put much effort into getting to know them and what they enjoy other than raising their children. They were all people with interests prior to having kids - and most mothers don't just become robots when they have children. Granted, there are some for whom motherhood seems to be the be all and end all in life but even those people have other stuff they find interesting - cooking, movies, sports, artistic hobbies, etc etc etc.

You may find you have pre-determined that you can ONLY be friends with people who have had a similar work experience to you. Which is as bad as people who decide they can ONLY be friends with other stay at home mums or people who have never been to uni. You're auto-excluding people without actually knowing them very well.

It makes sense that people you meet who have children and know you have children would view that an easy conversation starter. So do the work and ask them about themselves beyond their kids. There are plenty of ways that conversation can go. There are also plenty of parents who have or have had corporate/professional level careers prior to having kids. Frankly I spent so much time at work (trial lawyer) that I would rather talk about anything else than my career - plus I find other people fascinating so have no issue asking them about themselves and their passions in life.

I'll give you an example: I love scuba diving, skiing, cooking, labradors, boats, cars, various sports, pottery and other creative arts, going to the theatre, music, travelling, loafing around doing absolutely nothing, hats, beach walking, going to London to walk around, and Tom Hardy. None of those things have anything to do with my career (though some of them are certainly facilitated by the money earned from it) and none of them mention my kids. There's loads in their one could talk about. The bucket list of things to try and do in life is even longer - and I assure you that no one puts "work more" and "talk about my kids" on said bucket list. The key is to be open to learning about other people.

If you truly have issues with socialising then go see a therapist/coach.

I can see why these 'boring' other mothers swerve you then, if you're looking down on them for not having corporate jobs, being as successful as you, and only want to talk about work, you are boring, and condescending!

I think you are progammed to like your own company best of all.
It is normal to only tell your deepest feelings to your spouse or a very close family member or friend.

Friends usually offer chit chat, interesting social pleasures etc without being deeply into your feelings.

Maybe it's a hobby that you would get most benefit from. You could knit, sew or stitch near others and listen to chit chat but achieve something of beauty at the same time.

Be sure to suffer the boredom of arranging regular play dates and social outings for your children. They will learn from seeing you being friendly. They will learn that regular effort contributes to having friends.

Also go out on fun days of exploration with your DH and DCs. Allow the family to enjoy being outside the home environment.

I have a high flying corporate job and work full time, often travel abroad and have what people might consider interesting and fulfilling life, definitely a great career and opportunity to interact with lots of different people from various countries. One of the most interesting people around me is a SAHM from my daughter’s school who has never had a job. She is funny, welcoming, has lots of interests and is all around nice person to spend time with.

You need to get over your limited view of the world or of other people. You will not make friendships by only talking about work. The last thing I want to talk about after a busy day at work is…work. I would look inwardly a bit more if I were you and reflect on how you come across to other people. Are they finding you easy to talk to, funny and welcoming? Do they feel safe to talk about what interests them I.e. kids, laundry, walks, daily life, etc? Consider what you bring to the table for other people rather than only your expectations of them.

The irony is that I find fellow mothers boring.

You have to evince genuine interest in people as a fundamental to making friends. Everyone is an individual even where you live and if you've written them all off, that's a pretty dislikable core to your character. You don't have to host brunches and pretend to like everyone, but if you don't have a basic respect and curiosity about the people you meet, then yeah, you probably are a lost cause.

OP are you ND by any chance?

I’m confused about whether you are currently working or not. Either way - get a job that’s not remote? Then you can talk to people in person about work to your heart’s content. As someone who also has “corporate-ish” job I’m surprised you know exactly what all the other mothers in the class do for a living, and even more surprised that you find it difficult to find common ground to talk about regardless. Being able to do that is usually a skill that’s valued in the corporate world.

And there’s no way I’d have been interested in a mother’s day brunch - Mother’s Day is for family. It wouldn’t have been because I’m not corporate enough for it 🙄

Fundamentally it's going to be very difficult to bond with people that you don't really like.

Unfortunately as the main breadwinner, we need a decent salary that only a remote job would give.

BTW the mother's day brunch was not on mother's day, it was just an excuse to socialise outside the school setting

are you currently in work Op? Or job hunting?

Exactly this!!! I totally agree with you. Similar professional career here - absolutely love my job (alas can't do it at the mo - but that's beside the point for the purpose of this conversation) but I've got very little interest in conversing about it on the occasions where I'm not doing it (unless there's been an amusing incident - like for example the time when a fellow lawyer split his trousers getting out of a cab before going into court). Nor would I expect anyone else to be particularly interested in what I do for a living.

And, just like you, some of my best buds I've met are people who have totally different jobs, life goals, interests, and educational histories etc etc. One lady cleans boats, another works in a coffee shop, another is a SAHM etc etc etc. Two of them haven't been to uni. I enjoy their company - they have lovely warm personalities, they are caring, and we have a laugh. You sound like a fab person to be buddies with! I'm just sad now that you don't live closer to me - always happy to meet a new person with a joyous and open outlook on life! If you're ever in the New Forest area give us a shout lol!

But back to the general topic/general suggested guidance for people who find it tricky to make friends: Hi OP: I tend to find the easiest way to have a conversation is to go on a walk: the act of walking is an inherently positive "moving forward" thing to do, and there are always observational things going on that you can both chat about - plus it's an entirely non-confrontational space - you're both/all looking forward. You mentioned trying to throw a mother's day brunch: That's maybe way too full on for just getting to meet people - presumably they'd have to pay their own way, and also take time out to attend - which for some is difficult. Plus if they don't know you terribly well it might be just a bit too much to expect them to dedicate that kind of time. Start with something less involved - a cup of tea, a dog walk, or offering to babysit or whatever rather than starting out with something really "big".

I agree with this - one of my friends just talks about work but it is so boring. I don’t work there or know the people so it means nothing to me!

I wfh full time too - I have friends from the school pick ups as well as other friends. The mum group is made up of different types - SAHM, full and part time workers etc. They aren’t a homogeneous group - so I don’t know how you could find them ‘boring’.

I hate to say it but it does sound like a ‘you’ problem- you say you are intense and only want to talk about work. I would struggle to deal with someone like you.

I'm a fairly detached and mostly career driven (and that's what I mostly like to talk about!)

I'm afraid this is the problem. People are more than their jobs and however fascinating they find them, it is unlikely others will, certainly as a main and longterm subject of discussion (unless you do something that provides a constant stream of Hollywood gossip or are actually a rock star. Corporate, no.)

What other than work are you interested in/enjoy doing?

I love my dog! I'd rather talk about her than my DC in all honesty.

I'm a competitive bi-athelete.

And overall I'm an information junkie.

I mentor other expats getting well paid jobs, that's one of my main "hobbies". My success rate is currently 3 :)

Sticky with your dog then OP
and crack on with job hunting if your family are dependent on your income

Maybe challenge yourself to be interested in other people and in other things than work.

We women are all more than our careers or lack of. We're a range of life experiences, interests, hobbies and challenges.
I would put money on it that you're underestimating other women massively.

I feel for you being so lonely and I can understand how you would get your value from your career when you lack real life friendships and connections. Maybe find other things to add to your life that you can also find value in. But also I wonder if you write other women off quite quickly because it hurts less then, that you haven't made a connection?

Do you have any hobbies? Is there anything you would like to try?
Do you ever see someone doing something and catch yourself thinking "I wish I could do that but.....". That is a good place to start.

I tend to find if I go out and do stuff I tend to get 'adopted' by other more outgoing and less socially risk averse women who are willing to take a risk in inviting me for a coffee etc.

I have friends who have different interests. One likes comedy and being outdoorsy, another likes to really talk through things she's finding challenging - I find I can chew over my own things well with her. Another likes the odd walk and a breakfast. Another likes going to gigs. Another sometimes invites me to the gym. Some of these I have more depth with and others are more activity based. It really doesn't matter. You find out surprising things about each other along the way and the friendship slowly deepens.

I'm not great if I don't feel part of some kind of 'team'. I learned this when I had some counselling a few years ago and was asked about times in my life that I felt happy and they were very much when I played a team sport.

When my children were young, I volunteered as a scout leader; brilliant for feeling part of a group and I made some great friends there.

I now work in a very small team of 3 at work which is perfect for me. As my children have got older, I love chatting to them and their partners and friends.

I think it's very normal to feel this way. Humans just aren't made for living in isolation, most of us need interaction and to feel that we are achieving something positive with other people.

So this sounds amazing. Could the expats you mentor not turn into friendships?

Bi-athlete. I thought I know what it was but googled it to double check. Ski-ing and shooting! Are you not part of a club through that?
Does that not involve finding other people to spend time with keeping your fitness up?

And information. Lots of women love information and would want to know what interests you. They would be happy to attend interesting talks, author events etc.... with you

I have my hobbies and quite happy with them. I've thought of joining the local baseball team but that's about it.

I would happily go to concerts and meet people that way, but the bands I like only play in London, and obviously give where I live that's not really cost effective.

Maybe challenge yourself to be interested in other people

I think this will be key to you making friendships.

I generally don't meet people at concerts. Some people make quick connections. I take longer. I do have a range of friends who were once aquaintances and if something comes up that I want to do, I'll invite someone along if I think they may enjoy it too. I have a good feel for what they each like.

But I've also decided if I'm rarely going to be one of the initiators, I am going to be a join-inner.

I went to a gig of a band I didn't know last year because I was invited and an aquaintance at the time wanted someone to go with. We'd never done anything other than a handful of water cooler conversations but she knew I liked music, so asked. Committing to spend nearly a full weekend with someone I hardly knew was a stretch but was worth it. I love live music so it didn't matter that I wasn't into the band. I enjoyed all the other bits more than the concert to be honest. The trip down, the company, finding something to eat etc.

There y'go! You love your dog! No doubt there are other mums who also have dogs and love to go on a dog walk! Figure out who they are, and suggest a dog walk and a coffee afterwards. Dogs are great icebreakers.