To let my children play with these children

[Kidswillbethedeathofme]

I will start by saying- I accept any of my children’s friends. More often than not I have other children in my house playing, snacking etc.
my middle child is around 9, youngest is 7 (eldest is 15 so not really relevant in this as he is unsocial!). We live in a smallish quiet cul de sac, with a mixture of people- some private owners, some elderly, some ‘council’, some disabled, some employed, some not employed. There are plenty of children around here, and they all congregate in the cul de sac, share bikes, ‘knock on’ for each other, generally a good bunch of kids- of all ages!

the issue I am having is one house. The kids are ‘generally’ nice, but the mother leaves a lot to be desired. Her kids have continuously been taken off her and allowed back gradually due to poor life choices (drink,drugs, neglect). When the children are ‘in her mums restricted care’ her children will be at any of the children’s doors telling them how their mum has a hangover and is lying on the sofa- so they have to stay out and play all day. They are given money to buy what they want from the local shop to keep them out - think red bull and sweets. They are allowed to wander wherever they want. Just last month they went to the park unsupervised, and very almost got kidnapped - a random man pulled up and asked them into his car and was persistent. Luckily they were close to a family friends house so ran away. Their dad (who has most of the care and is just as negligent!) had told them to go to the park until he could collect over an hour later. They have unrestricted access to social media and talk to random strangers online.

so my kids look up to these kids and think I’m ‘mean’ for not allowing to the park with them, to the shop etc unsupervised. I stand firm on this and won’t waiver. However on the occasion they are at their mums, they ask other children to come to their house- am I wrong for saying no?! I know it’s mean for the kids- but this particular house had their front door kicked in the other day by a disgruntled person (reasons I’m not sure of?) and I don’t want my children around this neglect and violence.

but how do I go about it nicely without a full disclosure to my kids? I’m happy to be the mean parent, but I also know it not the other kids fault!

YANBU.
I'd be blunt. Not all people are good people. Not all people are safe.
This family are not safe and they could get hurt around them.

Keep it factual and age appropriate - I only want you to go into houses where I know the parents. I don't have a personal relationship with their mum and so you aren't allowed in the house. Keep it up with their other friends, if they say why can I go to xxx house, you say because I know them and know their rules etc..
Make it clear you're happy to let them play as long as they follow your rules so the kids don't feel it's a reflection on them should it be brought up between them.
I would also maybe say that you make rules based on what you think is best for them and leave it at that.

"They don't supervise their children, so no, you can't go to their house I'm afraid".

Short and truthful.

I like this approach. I have tried to some degree- they were in my house one day (I am a working, council tenant, single mum) and they were all in my daughters room ‘playing’. When going to check what they were up to, I found them on one of their iPads talking to a random boy on Snapchat. I told them that if they are in my house my rules apply and that is no social media, and certainly no talking to random people with my child around. They stopped coming for a while.

How old are the kids?

Mine are 7 and 9. Hers are 9 and 10

Honestly, I’d be reporting your concerns to social care. The kids are too young not to be properly supervised and it sounds like they’re likely to be harmed online as well. If you’re happy to have them play at your house where you can see them, that would be nice of you, but the unsupervised phone access is a nightmare waiting to happen.

Agree with previous posters suggestion of how to explain it to your kids.

Nope. Not a chance. No good will come of your kids mixing with kids of that age who have no routines or boundaries

I have actually done this- but anonymous so will hear no outcome. I did also raise my concerns with the school initially and they were us useful as a chocolate teapot! (I’m hoping they did something with my concerns but the way they spoke with me sounded as though they wouldn’t?)
I am more than happy to have them under my roof- I have allowed them for sleepovers, fed them when their parents aren’t around- but they have to be treated the same as my kids. I csnt force them to stay at mine, so as soon as the rules come into play they disappear (obviously not when they are here for a sleepover!)
I believe these children are lovely, (and I dreamt one day that I fostered them and they grew up into lovely adults). But they are just in a toxic, neglectful environment. I feel sorry for them, but there’s only so much I can do on my wage, time, and also with the number of children I have myself!
I feel awful when I see them In the street, and we are off out for the day, or I call mine in for a decent meal, and they are eating crap from the shop because they are waiting for their dad to collect them while their mum goes out again.

Firstly, you need to report the neglect.

But I wouldn't allow my children to spend time with them, not a chance.

It’s a shame isn’t it, but reporting (even anonymous) is the only way to build up enough of a picture for professionals to do something. It sounds like you’re doing your best x

I have reported. But how do I go about not allowing my children to play with these kids? It’s not the kids fault- and all I see that will happen is these young kids will be segregated from everyone else, and not communicate with anyone- exasperating this issue?

I am trying, and that’s all I can do. My heart just breaks for these kids, as I don’t want to segregate them as they’ve been through enough- but I can’t see any other way? I have to protect my kids first and foremost.

I feel really sorry for those children and agree that you should keep flagging your concerns to social services. Your children are really young though, you need to supervise them to make sure they are not accessing inappropriate content online or entering a home that may not be safe.

I agree that it would be mean to prevent them seeing these children at all (like you say, it's hardly their fault they are being neglected). But your children are your responsibility to safeguard. I'd be watching them whenever they played with their friends, regardless of whether that was on the street or in your house. You don't need to make it obvious you're targeting these children in particular, just make a rule that they have to play downstairs or in the garden when friends are over. At 7 I'm assuming you can always see them when they are on the street so you can call them over if they are looking at a phone?

That’s their parents’ problem to deal with

How the hell is this even a question in your mind?! Absolutely your children should not be going to the park unsupervised, visiting this dysfunctional household or playing with these children. I would cut of all contact immediately between your children and theirs. They are clearly a danger. Kids from these types of households are little mirrors of their home lives and the bad behaviour will only get worse over time.

Come on OP, you knew the answer already!

Well you either disallow it to protect your kids, or let them crack on with exposing them to dangerous content and behaviour. Not a choice I'd need to spend any amount of time making.

By taking the kids off the parent's hands you're not actually helping, just enabling their continued neglect.

My sons had a few friends like this over the years. I was happy to have them at my house and feed them if they were there. I didn't allow my children to go to their houses and I told my children (when the other child was not there) that I didn't think the parents supervised their children enough and that they mustn't ask to go there as the answer will always be no. This worked fine and my kids understood why.

I would say that there was no social media back then so I didn't have to contend with that. I would supervise them very closely when they are at your house and make sure your children are not seeing anything untoward on phones/ipads.

i can see them at all times when they are playing out, and in my kids defence they always ask me before going into another child’s house, meaning I get a choice to say no rather than having to drag them out of a house and cause confrontation. And to defend all of the children that play out - nobody’s devices work unless connected to WiFi, so they don’t bother bringing them outside as it doesn’t work anyway! The issue is when they are in a house and connected to WiFi- yes partly my fault for giving them the password, but again- I treat everyone the same in my house, my child or not. So when they are in my house using my WiFi you play by my rules and will not be on social media?!

In an ideal world I'd try and show some kindness to those children. Their lives sounds incredibly sad.

Unfortunately we aren't.
And they will inevitably be exposed to all sorts of horrors through negligence and I simply could not let my children become collateral damage in that.

I'd keep them as far away as possible.

I'll prob be told im a pearl clutcher but its all good and well people telling you go be kind when its not their child and it's too late after the event.
Internet access is hardly going to be closely supervised is it?

OP I’ve kind of been in this same situation. In my previous house, there was a large bit of grass directly outside where local children would play. I didn’t mind mine playing where I could see them, with their friends. I drew the line at the little trouble makers/fire starters and window smashers. My children to begin with didn’t understand why they couldn’t kick a ball with these children. I started with small explanations (because they do silly things) and as they got older, I changed the wording (they don’t play safe, they do dangerous things, they damage things etc).

Im aware it started as they were just left to run wild, no supervision but unfortunately the eldest became a preteen and the younger who was a toddler was copying his older brothers. So the cycle continued even when the eldest became all about gaming (in between setting cars on fire!)

Another occasion with another child that I did know and thought was okay. I had to mention our house doesn’t allow TikTok so to please leave the phone downstairs if he was going upstairs here. He hasn’t been back, which is fine with me. I won’t budge from my rules.

So basically as much as you don’t want to punish the children by keeping yours away from them, it may reach a point where you have to.

Thank you, I appreciate this. I just wish these kids could be kids- I am by no means a perfect parent, but they have been forced to grow up too quickly.
like you said- happy to have them in my house and feed them etc. if there’s not enough for everyone then nobody has anything until they’ve all gone home.
i think I have to be cruel to be kind here - it’s sad because I can see these kids going without anything if everyone cuts contact with them.

I’m pleased to hear I’m not the only one who has had to (sadly) deal with this. I’m quite upfront with my kids for somethings- but I don’t want to say too much that will end up going back to their parents and cause even more confrontation. I think I’ll just continue saying no, and if they are playing out the front and asking mine to come out then it’s a no until they’ve gone. If they join mine whilst playing out then mine will be called in.

No I bloody well wouldn't allow it. We are responsible for protecting our children to s reasonable level. It'd be neglectful of you to allow your children to be anywhere near their home ! All for the sake of #bekind.

I wouldn't mince my words either. I'd say they have parents that don't care and are dangerous and neglectful and my job is to protect you from that. They'll always be exposed to these type of people, but bringing them to their door (quite literally) Is dangerous for them.

Those poor children. Unfortunately,they're probably already very unlikeable and undesirable humans, through absolutely no fault of their own. They've been failed miserably by the two people that carelessly created them. Awful how some poor little babies are born into dark worlds like that. Tragic. Social services need to intervene here and pretty quick , so I'm glad you've reported. Unfortunately, the damage is done . They're too old to unlearn the shit they've learnt already. May as well stick the poor things in prison now. Cut out the middle man .

But, your children don't deserve to be exposed to it just because it's not the other kids fault.

I'd say no you can't go to theirs to play but why not invite these DC to your home instead. The DC have done nothing wrong. I foster DC like this and get really upset when I see how they have been excluded not just by other DC but by adults who should be kinder to them.