Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Well I think what they do in many countries is you have to show either that the job has been advertised to a citizen and it hasn't been possible to fill it with a suitably qualified applicant or that the position requires skills / provides benefits that aren't available in other ways. E.g. you want someone from the New York office to come to London to share organisational expertise or you need an expert of a particular type who has done certain research. There are also often special visas for entrepreneurs that bring a large amount of money with them.

You are not reading the room. What an ignorant comment or an attempt to derail the thread away from too many IMGs applying for UK training posts.

Most of these doctors DO NOT WANT TO SPEND 1-2 YEARS IN AUSTRALIA! They want to work in their home country.

They have different employers as in lots of universities to apply to.

@PurpleFairyLights and doctors have lots of hospitals....and also different placements. The point is does the UK want to spend money on training people but without essentially guaranteeing a job at the end of it because they think they can get people from abroad because they are available, cheaper or have longer/more extensive CVs.

How can you make that ridiculous comparison?

These doctors have no jobs! Not no job unless they move up North.

Does that make it easier to understand?

Another one trying to derail the thread.

They have ONE national yearly training recruitment round via Oriel.

There are virtually no trust grade or locum opportunities in hospitals if you don't get a training place.

Am not trying to derail the thread. The reason why doctors no longer get priority is similar to academics i.e. more agile recruitment opportunity, not caring about home talent (or money spent on them) and selection by supposed cv points i.e. whoever has most points get in. Medicine isnt special....it's going the same way as other sectors. Now you can make the case that somehow it is and thats why jobs should be protected. Just dont be surprised when people from similar types of sectors come on to suggest this is part of a wider issue within the UK.

This is awful. Same take home pay as 20 years ago, and money is worth so much less now.

If you work less hours you get paid less

Yet again another poster unable to understand what is going on.

These posters seem to be out in force this morning.

My DC has moved regularly and is happy to move anywhere to work. It is not about doctors not wanting to relocate.

The only person who complained about relocation was to get a consultant post so have finished their training.

Yes and there are similar issues with nurses. Whatever the last government did which led to the current situation urgently needs unwinding and replacing with something sensible asap lest we end up with the delightful Mr Farage as PM.

That said the situation for junior doctors is particularly appalling and nonsensical.

Letting the markets decide everyone's worth? A free market? Flooding the medical sector with IMGs, PAs etc might just be acceptable to the likes of Farage, Truss, and a number of others making a case for it recently in the press but not in the interests of young doctors facing unemployment or the future of the medical profession.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/01/keir-starmer-attack-on-reform-irresponsible-policies-could-backfire

Whatever the last government did is linked here. Article from 3 weeks ago.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-plans-end-failed-free-market-experiment-immigration-2025-05-10/

Flooding the market keeps wages low.

IMGs will be on same pay scale as UKMGs so paid the same so no saving there.

Unless it ends up with doctors not going for full pay restoration as so concerned with potential unemployment?

BAPIO Training Academy is a private limited company with 6 shareholders. Here is their latest confirmation statement from Companies House with the list of shareholders and how the shares are allocated/the share classes (ie who is entitled to dividends, voting rights etc).

No, FPR unlikely if they keep flooding the market with IMGs, PAs, etc. If there's an oversupply, there is no incentive to increase wages. That would be the same in any sector.

But the whole point of this thread is that they can get IMG with much more impressive CVs (am not discussing here whether these are merited or not). But the reality is that if you are getting a more experienced person with a more impressive CV for the same amount of money that is paying people less. It's like hiring teachers for a salary of a TA - yes, the TA salary isnt decreasing per se but if you are getting a teacher for that then effectively you are getting much more for the same price.

But what happens when the IMGs leave the UK. Who will fill the gaps they leave?

Specialty training takes between 3 to 8 years so cannot magic up clinical experience...

Again - am not saying this is good - although as PP mentioned up thread - in part this system was allowed precisely because NHS werent sure of the numbers they could get in the first place. Plus seeing as plenty of British doctors leave the NHS - doctors leaving the profession isnt exclusively an issue with IMGs.

I have also lived in Switzerland which basically imported lots of trained medics from Germany because it's cheaper, Germany gets them from elsewhere in Europe e.g. Romania where they especially train German speaking medics to work in Germany. In Switzerland - locals dont see medicine as such a great career to get into and dont. In fact, lots of countries choose to import rather than train medics - because it's cheaper than training them and you can create a much more flex job market in a profession that isnt all that flexible in terms of producing a brand new professional tomorrow.

IMGs won’t just leave. Many have settled here forever. What should happen is no more come until there is a need for them. So after all our home trained doctors have jobs. Then, and only then, can we recruit from abroad. Like every other country in the world !

It’s nothing to do with having an ‘impressive CV’. Not knowing how the NHS (mis)functions is not impressive at all. Ask yourself why a highly qualified consultant would want to work as an ST1. It’s just to either get a visa or to get the NHS experience so they can move abroad. It’s not to spend the next 7 years doing the grunt work required.

Theres currently 7 anaesthetic consultants jobs advertised in the UK.....pretty sure there's slightly more than 7 of us in st7.... we won't have jobs either

Do you agree with flooding the market in any sector then?

More impressive CVs? Not necessarily!

I repeat:

Recruitment of IMGs who are either exempt from licensing exams or sit an easier version of it does not guarantee the candidate is recruited on merit. Also not if they have gamed the recruitment system by paying for expensive courses to be fast tracked by agencies exploiting weaknesses in the immigration system. They're just leapfrogging other new IMGs who may be more deserving. Don't get us started on the credibility of CREST forms signed off overseas. Then there are those purely using the UK as a stepping stone to access global jobs overseas which is a terrible investment for the NHS.

I

@Destiny123 the unemployment of consultants is a crime. We are so in need of you all, yet lots can’t get jobs. I know 2 A&E consultants who have no job in 2 weeks - while queues are out the doors. Somewhere there is a brain that can connect these dots.

Am not in favour of flooding the market while we have domestic professionals who can do the job. However, as a senior academic watching HE and NHS going down the drain - am just not sure that medicine is the only sector having these same issues.