Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Check the price out of one of its courses : up to £32k per IMG to be paid directly into a UK bank account. Non refundable deposits taken from IMGs.

goocampusuk.com/mrcp-mba

Is that price for the 4 year course?

I meant to write non refundable application fees from each IMG not deposits. My mistake. Not sure exactly what 4 year course you mean Clavinova. That's an example of one of them.

Dr Mucci first posted that payslip in Jan 2023 - FY2 doctors (her colleague at the time) have obviously had a pay rise since. The payslip seems to show a decent amount of supplementary pay for working extra hours, plus the old senior house officer grade seems to cross more than one grade, so was she actually the equivalent to an FY2 in 2005 or a slightly higher grade?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_doctor

Surely this should be looked at immediately.

Is the new BMA chair a member of Bapio?

From your link;

Work & study for 2 years in India + 2 years in the UK under experienced faculties.

Wasn't sure if you were referring to the course in the link or whether another 4 year course you had in mind possibly being the same as this course. Anyway as I said it's just an example.

PurpleFairyLights
Is it too much to ask that they are not competing with 33,000 non UK graduates on top of the 12,000+ UK graduates a year?

Are the 12,000 UK graduates not already included in the 33,000 total?

I am currently working on a document. The more you look the more concerning the situation is.

Simple question for Wes. Why are they allowing doctors from India to enter the NHS workforce when we have unemployed doctors that were trained in UK?

No, the current BMA chair is Philip Banfield but the one when the RLMT was removed in 2021 was Chaand Nagpaul. He is on the advisory board of BAPIO Training Academy.

Hi just checked you are right must have misread a table. There were 20,000 IMGs applying for training to start in 2025

Thanks. Do you know what Philip Banfields opinion is on priority for UK grads?

https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r328

And this too (see below) but note the dates of each article.

Since then there has most recently been a report in the Times about Wes 's position.

https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r157#:~:text=The%20BMA%20has%20apologised%20for,applying%20for%20specialty%20training%20posts.

We just don't know until they publish further details on where UKMGs will end up. Perhaps more information released with the new NHS 10 year Health Plan.

The problem is that applications for 2026 training open in October so they need to do something now as this October there will be the new F2s applying plus the UK grads that did not get a training place this year.

Yes, I know what you mean. Think I recall reading somewhere that the NHS 10 year Health Plan is out this June so hopefully there will be further details then.

Found this

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/breaking-news/nhs-england-launches-major-review-of-postgraduate-training-including-gp-programmes/

Personally, I think you have misrepresented this article/editorial.

My impression on reading was not of an 'India first policy' or the 'expectation on the UK to do a lot of work out in India' - the examples given just before your quote were for other regions;

For instance, sub-Saharan Africa bears 24% of the global disease burden but has only 3% of the world’s healthcare workforce. Countries like Nigeria and the Philippines invest heavily in training healthcare professionals, only to lose them to high-income countries like the UK.

The reference to the WHO and active recruitment from countries with critical shortages would not apply to India either. Likewise the THET partnership referred to has a country presence in Ethiopia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Somaliland and Myanmar.

There was certainly a call for more support for Indian and other IMGs who had chosen to work in the UK - better induction, career progression etc.

https://bapio.co.uk/the-winds-of-change-for-international-healthcare-professionals-a-call-for-fairness-and-ethical-recruitment/

The India first approach idea is not based solely on this article though. It's a matter of opinion.

And the opinion is based on the information and facts out there all of which would be a pain to link every time we have a further point to add to the discussion.

I’m only halfway through the thread
Why do our hospital departments have no staff?

for instance my routine dermatology appointment has been pushed back 6 months - the secretary has in her own words said “please complain to PALS, we are asking everyone to then we will get some staff”

gynae - was 3 endometriosis consultants, now down to 1, waiting lists are a year just to be seen let alone operated on

Basically because the hospitals don't have enough money to pay for enough staff.

Consultants might be somewhat overpaid relative to some other countries too.

But nurses are not and we have shortages of them in hospitals too. But simulataneously British nursing graduates are unemployed as nurses have been brought in from overseas. The real problem is that the hospitals don't have enough money to employ enough staff.

I have no issue with doctors and nurses coming from overseas if posts are first advertised to British citizens. Though these are good jobs and ideally we would train enough of our own young people to do them.

It's a tricky question however to make sure the NHS is properly funded so that it can afford to employ enough staff. Aging population with already high taxation anf government debt. Most other developed countries employ more doctors and nurses relative to their populations than we do. But they often have some form of co-pay or insurance contribution required too.

And also the alphabet soup of other professions eg PAs, who are paid much more than nurses and doctors. But are less qualified. No, there is no sense in it !

Medicine is a special case because there is only one employer for UKMG - the NHS.

All other graduates will have many companies they can apply to.

@PurpleFairyLights that'sliterally the same thing with academics.