Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Can I guess you are in England and your F1s are on the new English contract?

DD is not, and hours can be brutal. On her first rotation she had 10 days in a row including 13 hour longs.

There is no personal development time, indeed compulsory training often has to be done in their own time.

DD chose the Deanery and loves the area, but new F1s, unless they went to the local University, are often allocated.

And it did happen. The Doctor who should have been in charge failed to turn up, leaving an F2 and two new F1s in charge. The 70 year old consultant who had run the day shift stayed till midnight but could not do any more.

In some areas the NHS is falling apart fast. They need to keep good F2s who want to stay.

I feel so sorry for any junior doctors that work with you. You sound so hard and unsympathetic to their plight.

And 5 out of 6 placements have involved both nights and weekends.

You are either very lucky or completely out of touch. There are so many vacancies. F1/F2s have to pull their weight.

And they were supposed to get a pay rise to bring them up to the OLD English pay scales. Not happened yet. The Trusts have not got the money.

DD actually takes home a reasonable amount as the hours are long. Her take home fell sharply on the one rotation where she was working regular hours in a day clinic. It was just about enough to live on, and DD is quite frugal.

Yes, BAPIO, the British Association of Physicians of Indian Origin took the UK government to court when immigration rules changed to favour EU and UK applicants for training contracts. TBF, they had a point that those doctors who were encouraged to apply for roles in the UK and were already working here should have been allowed to remain.

BAPIO run the scheme for IMGs that a PP posted.

They also took the The Royal College of General Practitioners and GMC to court (and lost) accusing them of discrimination because IMGs were 16 times more likely to fail the clinical skills assessment than white UK candidates.

And BAPIO run training schools in India which provide routes into NHS training. Senior people sir on GMC as well as BMA committees.

Some IMGs worry that BAPIO are over playing their hand in trying to promote the interests of doctors outside the UK. But then many IMGs will have UKMG children struggling to build careers here. There is concern that preparing overseas doctors for work/training in the UK is lucrative and brings with it a conflict of interest.

Surely UK government must be aware of this?

This is going to cause huge problems in August when country starts to realise that the UK is training IMGs ahead of UK graduates because people have got themselves in positions of influence in the UK.

How does BAPIO explain away bringing in doctors from India when UK doctors have no jobs?

Is there anyone in media? I am preparing something to go out to newspapers and TV about unemployed UK trained doctors to coincide with their last working day on first Tuesday of August.

Would appreciate if anyone happy to proof read?

Also is there a civil body that looks at conflicts of interest in NHS?

I am sure they are.

There is even a big row going on within the BMA between the Resident Doctor committee who want training, and the GP committee which is very IMG dominated (I have previously posted links of reports in The Pulse.)

I have also posted this:

https://bapiotrainingacademy.com/two-plus-two-programme/

A mismatch. Many we train don't stay. Many with training numbers don't want to work in less popular deaneries. So BAPIO 'helpfully' fills the gaps.

Nicer perhaps if young doctors in the UK could be given the same opportunities or have access to similar training programmes.

One thing is clear from the debate is that cries of racism are almost inevitable. And the Government is very sensitive to being called racist, even though many, both in medical schools or on this board, are not white.

If I could ask a potentially stupid question, as I am really interested- on this thread PPs say there are going to be thousands of new doctors who can't find jobs, but right now the BMA is threatening national strike action if junior doctors don't get a 29% pay rise.

This is not meant as some kind of personal attack, it's just really hard to understand what is going on.

I personally think BMA has lost touch as IK graduate doctor unemployment should be their priority. They need to read the room. Their request will not do doctors any good if they have no jobs.

Surely cries of racism can work both ways?

The government need to act to protect UK grads now. I think they are more afraid of Reform than accusations of racism.

What is racist about not flooding the UK medical workforce with IMGs at the expense of UK grads?

I am surprised that Reform and Tories have remained silent on this.

There is lots on reddit. Both UKMGs and IMG already in the UK are unhappy.

This is the first post I pulled up
"It is by design that UK doctors are facing an employment crisis. Since 2023, the number of international medical graduates has outnumbered the number of Uk graduates obtaining a GMC licence to practice.
The situation has been enabled, and in some cases actively encouraged, by NHS England, the GMC and the Department of Health and Social Care.
Although the GMC can take much of the credit by exponentially increasing PLAB exam offerings, organisations such as BAPIO and world leading NHS trusts also deserve much applause.
The BAPIO have a sponsorship agreement with the GMC, thereby enabling doctors working as consultants in India with > 5 years experience to directly apply for consultant jobs in the UK even if they do not currently have GMC registration and are not on the specialist register. Once offered a job, the GMC immediately grants registration if sponsored by the BAPIO. Not only does this reduce the job market for Uk graduates, it also makes all this hoop jumping worthless. The doctors sponsored via this pathway do not have to sit the PLAB exam nor do they have to be on the specialist register with a CCT.
The GMC website has a list of partner “sponsor” organisations. Some of the top institutions in the country are recruiting vis this scheme while UK graduates face unemployment. Ironically, in specialities which long have had 100% fill rates such as Anaesthetics, Clinical Radiology and Paediatrics.
To be clear, this is a completely different pathway to the medical training initiative which is also another pathway which reduces job prospects for UK graduates.
The DHSC and the Government do not value your contribution or your sacrifice. By using the GMC as a proxy organisation they are deliberately working against UK graduates interests.
Why do you think they are doing this?"

This is absolutely shocking. Which politicians would be interested in this?

@PurpleFairyLights v happy to proof read anything. I’m a Chemistry teacher so my grammar might not be perfect. But I’ll understand the passion 😊

Junior doctors, or rather Resident Doctors is anyone up to Senior Registrar level.

The BMA interests itself mainly in doctors who are further up the ladder and so in pay rather than training opportunities. A good proportion of them will be IMGs so even less interest in the problems of British educated medics.

Thanks so much. Very much appreciated.

The GMC website has a list of partner “sponsor” organisations. Some of the top institutions in the country are recruiting vis this scheme while UK graduates face unemployment. Ironically, in specialities which long have had 100% fill rates such as Anaesthetics, Clinical Radiology and Paediatrics.

Name and shame them then - where is your evidence.
Thee will always be a need to IMGs as 12000UK F2s will not all take the 12000 training slots - some will travel, some will leave medicine all together, some will get sick, have children and some are just not ready at the end of FY2 to take the next step they need more time. Saying we will only offer training jobs out after all UK graduates have got what they want will lower standards and people who should not will get jobs they are not suited/ ready for etc. A balance yes but if you know you are guarnateed a training slot where is the hunger, drive etc to do the extra.
We had run through training not long ago and some people who got run through at CT1 - just stopped trying because they had a meal ticket to a con job. Unsurprisingly run through has petered out.

There’s still a few that do run through. But the log jam for others at ST3/CT3 is even worse than ST1.

Oh there you are again being nasty.

Have our young doctors not proved themselves already? Is it too much to ask that they are not competing with 33,000 non UK graduates on top of the 12,000+ UK graduates a year? Even with those ratios how can they compete with IMGs that have been doctors for far longer so will get more portfolio points?

If this government do not do something quickly this will backfire on them spectacularly.

Why do 195 countries worldwide prioritise their own medical graduates but UK refuses to see what they are doing will destroy NHS workforce resilience?

I don't understand your post.

The post was on Reddit, where I think you are already engaged. There was an attached article that you can read through.

Obviously 12000 F2s won't take up 12,000 training posts. But plenty want training and are good enough. Why should it not be accessible to them? Why are we providing pathways for doctors from overseas?

IMGs I know think it bizarre that we allow our young people to fall off a cliff into unemployment after 8 years of medical school and work. And instead prioritise helping those from overseas. Unlike you, most seem content that the majority of UKMG F1s/F2s are good and hardworking and at least as good as their overseas equivalents.

Like any higher skill just because you want to does not mean you are good enough.
You seem to think that just because they have reached a point they deserve to get the next step. some do but some do not. When I was going for my number I thought everyone was busting their balls like me - shock to find out that many were not and then surprised when they failed to get it first time round. PS took me 2 attempts.
Training is accessible - you have to apply to find out and accept a rejection and apply again. So may people are saying not worth trying - I know 3 of our FY2s were not going to - all were encouraged by us Regs and Consultants, 2 got it. 1 did not - they admitted they had messed up their portfolio but done well on the rest. Frustrating but they are ready to go again next year.

i am not on reddit

So 20,000 doctors are just not good enough or working hard enough to get a job ? Wow.