Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Yes. He has worked hard and he is a British citizen. He wants to stay in UK and settle with a job and family. It's his first choice. If not he had studied medicine at university in his second country (with no university fees) but his life has always been in England.

Tbh I am not sure UK wants it young people to stay in NHS.
A lot of young doctors will emigrate these years if they can. They already do. They don't really get a choice.
Maybe the state of NHS in mind they will have a better life in the long run in other countries.

The question is which countries? Virtually no country will employ a UK doctor and the few alternatives would not be able to absorb the 20,000 unemployed doctors in August.

There are limited mostly non-training posts in NZ or Oz. US used to never except UK doctors but someone on this thread said US is opening up a bit.

Not sure about EU countries but you would have to be fluent in that language and do exams to prove fluent in medical French for example.

Increasing training places is not really the answer or feasible.

There are mostly enough training places for each F1/Specialty training cohort. However this changed when IMGs were allowed to apply.

The NHS does not have the capability or finances to create a training place for each IMG already here which may be proposed rather than preventing grandfathering..

Pretty sure IMGs work visas are only to work as a doctor in the UK. Training opportunities open to them would be subject to current government policy. UK medical graduates who rightly assumed they could work as a doctor in their country that trained them should go first.

Any objection gainst prioritisation of UK graduates from people with influence should be looked into as it is against the best interests of NHS workforce resilience both now and in the future.

Ireland, I suppose, if the EU. It will be the English speaking countries - Australia, New Zealand, USA, Africa maybe which are relevant for the majority of young British doctors.
I don't know many the different countries can (or want to) absorb and what the need is in these countries for extra medical staff.

Yes, it is a issue if you don't speak a second language well and Britain has not prioritized modern languages for a while.

There are probably others besides our DS who hace more citizenships being bi/multilingual. It requires their other country to accept them into their national systems - it's not always simple.

Our DS is quite lucky as my home country has a lack of doctors and don't mind a British young doctor travelling in to train and settle - and I am thankful I insisted on keeping up his second language/heritage. It is easy to let it go because English is such a useful language around the world and he has always seen his life, education and future in UK.

And in the end a lot of young people don't want to leave UK to get a career. Home, dreams, friends, parents and family. It's not easy. At all.

BOOM !!!! Have you seen The Times ? Looks like Wes is making it happen - UK priority incoming this year 🤞🤞

Not sure is this is readable. But I’m so happy having my tea this morning !

Yes, @MTistheDB mentioned it too. See earlier post in thread. Brilliant news.

Wow! Sorry xannot read it. Does it mention what priority IMGs already here get?

Sorry ! Woke up early with a bit of a hangover and got excited. Went back to bed 😂. I’m too old for 2am finishes these days 👵🏻

@PurpleFairyLights no, and not a definite time line, but it’s a positive start. I’m v sure the timing has to do with the ballot opening next week !

That is fantastic news! I am the wife of a doctor and shouldn't be on this thread but I fully support you all. I wish my DH had all you mums around when he was a juniour doctor. Well done!

Probably further details to follow on that.

Some quotes from the article:

The NHS plan is being rewritten....

Originally scheduled for this month, the plan has been pushed back by horse trading on policies, costs and changes to the team leading on its development. It is expected to be published later this summer.

.....promise a “fairer deal for our doctors in training” and reverse changes made in 2020 that opened up NHS speciality training jobs to overseas doctors. It will say the “social contract between doctors and the NHS was severely undermined by policy decisions” made by the previous government.
These included expanding medical school places in 2016 by 1,500. At the time Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary, did not increase funding for training posts in the NHS by a similar amount.........

...........The leaked extract says: “The result is that the competition ratio for postgraduate training places has rapidly increased from nearly two applications per place in 2018, to nearly six in 2024.

“In some professions, such as psychiatry, the competition ratio is as high as ten to one and is set to grow. No advantage is given to those applicants in whose education the NHS and society has already invested in. We will reverse that decision and prioritise UK medical graduates for foundation and postgraduate training.

Last month Streeting told GB News: “We’ve got this bizarre situation where graduates from UK medical schools are competing on an equal basis with overseas applicants for the same jobs. I think that is a crazy position for our country to be in.

“I am looking at the changes we need to make put an end to that situation so that students who are going through UK medical schools, they’re the people whose training we’ve invested in as a country, and they’ve invested in themselves to make sure that they get those jobs that are available in our national health service.”

@sparrowflewdown supportive wives are v welcome 😊. For me it’s bigger than just being a mum. My own DD has miraculously got into training in August and is v happy. But I also support students, mostly from poorer backgrounds, to get into Med School, and seeing them so worried about unemployment is heartbreaking. They can’t flee to Aus/NZ as can’t afford the visa, so they are stuck in an NHS that doesn’t want them. They’ve £100,000+ of debt and don’t have excess cash to cushion them if they try and rely on locum. All they want is to work as a doctor. I really hope this means they can.

And those accusing me of racism, many of my students are asylum seekers or from families originally from elsewhere. I have 2 wonderful Ukrainian students off to Med School this year - thought they be here 6 months but have not managed to get home. They will be UK graduates.

Maybe mums don’t need wine after all, hmmm?

I hope they make the change in time for the next cycle of specialty training applications in October.

I suspect Wes will buckle under pressure regarding IMGs already here and allow grandfathering, from those that have championed this unfair system. 41% if BMA membership ate IMGs.

If Wes allows grandfathering then the backlog will take years to clear as that will mean there will be the 12,000 UK graduates every year along with the IMGs already here. My Google search said 20,800 but not sure where accurate figures could be found.

Sorry to be so distrusting but this government do not make me confident and yes I did vote for them.

Yes I have a bad feeling we will be feeling repercussions for a while yet even if changes happen.

No politicians ever do anything properly. I suspect Wes has no idea of the numbers of IMGs already here.

Unless as part of their immigration overhaul no visas will be renewed or granted which may help priorisation of UK graduates.

Where have I said IMGs are superior?
Nowhere- I siad I wanted to be treated by the person IMG or British grad who had fought the extra mile to get where they are - the one who has gone to theatre in their own time to learn and refine skills, stayed to see a rare procedure etc etc.
Not the one who just made the grade.
Getting your CCT has minimum requirements - i do not want the person who just met the minima I want the one who got more. Minima mean basic level.

Also what has my partner got to do with anything.

My ignorance of the situation is based on a lot of false assumptions because there are a number of mummies on this thread who are not listening to people who do know what is going on and say medicine is hard and not a smooth road which some on here feel there children deserve.

Omg I thought we had seen the back of your posts.

You have been on this thread just because you are married to a doctor. Please just stop. You are not a doctor or the parent of a doctor. You have absolutely no idea.

Such snobbery
a barista in Costa - salary 21-25K
Junior doctor starting salary £39K for an FY1 working 8-5 and no night shifts
And yes a consultant will be on more it is called experience, training and responsibility, does not mean they have forgotten what it was like to be a junior doctor - applying for jobs every 6 months and facing unemployment, no guarantee of a training number etc etc. Same issues different execution

A lot of consultants did not support the junior doctors strikes but did not voice their opinions just got on treating patients and making sure their patients were cared for.

So much is correct on this but there is so much that is simply wrong

So much is incorrect and v easy to check. V glad you’re going to ignore us all.

So easy to check

Weird how a wifey claims to know more than a mummy. I know v little about the terms and conditions of my husbands employer 🤷‍♀️

Most likely someone who is not happy about the plans to prioritise UK doctors. Could also just be a miffed IMG, someone on the gravy train or someone who opposes changes to the immigration system for whatever reason.

Recruitment of IMGs who are either exempt from licensing exams or sit an easier version of it does not guarantee the candidate is recruited on merit. Also not if they have gamed the recruitment system by paying for expensive courses to be fast tracked by agencies and academies exploiting weaknesses in the immigration system. They're just leapfrogging other new IMGs who may be more deserving. Don't get us started on the credibility of CREST forms signed off overseas. Then there are those purely using the UK as a stepping stone to access global jobs overseas which is a terrible investment for the NHS.

wannabe voices concerns about merit but silent on all of the above.