Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Why do you think it is racist? 195 other countries prioritise their medical graduates. Are they racist too?

Not sure if you're aware but a lot of the UK doctors are from an ethnic minority background as are the IMGs already in the UK.

Prioritisation is being sought for the above groups. They should be allocated jobs ahead of IMGs who have yet to come and work in the NHS.

This discussion has nothing to do with race.

From the information posted there was an article saying that there are not enough jobs in India for their graduates.

No idea why IMGs from other countries cannot get jobs in their home countries. Would be interesting to know.

However if coming to UK to train and then return to their own country once in a senior role that is dangerous for the NHS and the resilience of NHS workforce as it could be severely diminished in the future.

Why are people sitting on panels allowing this? UK grads need to be prioritised, (it needs to be without grandfathering) followed by IMGs already here then everyone else.

I also have no clue what goes on where my husband works, why on earth would I? We have more interesting things to talk about.
He had no student debt, but he did work 80, yes 80 hour weeks for 10 years until he became a consultant. That's 16 hour days five days every week or more likely 3 days straight through. No one worked shifts. Thus 20 years work was fitted in to 10 years. I'm sure that paid back the investment in training him.
They all had free accommodation, but I'm sure it wasn't what they would have picked for themselves if they had time to go home.
He moved the length and breadth of the country, five different cities that I can recall but there may have been more. Every job be got was as a result of a competitive interview.
As to the nice secure job, yours will have that too if they get to the point of being a consultant.
And he never went on strike. It's not professional.

They had to strike because of pay erosion. Your "joke" about it not being professional is ridiculous.

OK for your husband on £140k plus while his juniors earn less than a barrister in Costa's. Most consultants supported the junior doctor strike.

Why are you on this thread when your children are not doctors? Seems like a complete waste of time.

You are right, it is a waste of time. I had gone, only came back to stop you all making ridiculous claims about me.

@oddandelsewhere Times have indeed changed since your husband did his training. Perhaps best not judging younger doctors without knowing the full facts or without having a first hand experience of what it is like being a resident doctor given the current working conditions and the lack of training opportunities and cuts in the NHS. I am sure your husband worked very hard to become a consultant. Younger doctors are also working hard but facing different challenges.

Professionalism has no relevance to Resident Doctors' rights to strike.

Read this to understand the strike issue better:

www.bma.org.uk/bma-media-centre/bma-says-the-independent-pay-review-body-has-failed-doctors-as-government-announces-inadequate-pay-award

Presumably because he was well remunerated for his efforts?

Feel these comments about consultants are a bit out of touch - my friends in their early 40s are consultants - they have student debt & didn’t get free accommodation.

Registrar not registra

It’s still going because it’s not racist. hth

Someone will be making a lot of money out of these courses, that’s usually the reason for the constant intense lobbying. They will want their gravy train to continue so won’t want negative publicity.

@watermelonices So look at who profits from the courses and find their affiliations that may influence Government policy?

My blood is starting to boil.

How did you manage your career having to move the length and breadth of the country? Must have been tricky for you to keep relocating.

I imagine many of the students would jump at the chance of a job anywhere at the moment…even if it means relocating.

i think you’re missing the point a bit, because they’re not complaining about the amount of work or the locations, a large number are not going to get a post at all and could be unemployed

Yes follow the money and see who benefits from it, and if there is a conflict of interest. That would be my plan

Can anyone help with this?

It’s this type of comment that stifles debate and ultimately is what has led us here in many industries. It’s not racism to believe in controlled immigration in industries that cannot fill posts with uk staff, it’s common sense.

How much of the NHS budget, if at all is spent accomodating the demands of the lobby group so that the adaptations for the new IMGs they recruit are made in the many NHS hospitals linked with them? It would be useful if we knew how if at all the hospitals involved have gone about implementing their recommendations? Have they had to appoint additional staff or create new positions specifically to do this? How much is spent on that? How have existing staff and procedures been affected by the changes? Is the NHS paying anything towards the trips abroad and time spent on implementing all these changes? There needs to be clarification on all this. Promoting courses to new IMGs encouraging them to sign up for expensive courses seems unethical at a time when NHS staff (including existing IMGs) are facing unemployment and when huge cuts in the NHS are being made.

@TreadLight are you aware that over 60% of UK trained graduates are not white. And 10% are not UK citizens. Please explain how giving priority to these graduates is racist ? Because if it is then every other country in the world is racist.

Watermelonices I certainly didn't trail about after him! We got married when he got his consultants job and had time for a family.

The landscape of medicine has totally changed in the last few years. When the current F2s applied for Uni unemployment was not a thing. They now have to face not having a job in August

Please please educate yourself about this. Ladder pulling consultants are the worst. Support your staff. Understand what is going on and why.

The average time to become a consultant after qualifying should be 9 years. It’s currently over 12, and it’s predicted that over 30% of doctors will never be one at all due to the lack of jobs & training.

We need doctors. We have doctors. They just need jobs.

Hopefully he will be fully supportive and understanding of the predicament the students are facing now and maybe raises awareness amongst his peers. It can’t hurt to get current consultants involved in publicising this unfairness,

I think it’s really important for us clinicians who are slightly older (!) to support more junior colleagues and students and understand that things are very different now to when we trained. Yes in some ways we had it tough, but in other ways it’s much tougher now.

Grandfathering. Any views?

Discussion on Reditt mention UK prioritisation must go with preventing grandfathering.

Just thought this may give you an insight into the issues facing doctors now compared to those that qualified decades ago. Note the comments of doctors having to work for free just to maintain their ability to practise.

The second article details the funding crisis in general practice. The career pathway of doctors have become extremely challenging. Unlike in your husband's training days, there is no job security now. Without jobs, progression is difficult. The career pathway to being a consultant is not guaranteed no matter how good or dedicated a doctor is. If these doctors have partners, family and a mortgage, it's unreasonable to expect them to hang around until a job comes up. That's why many may take alternative non-medical work for example in supermarkets or become delivery drivers.

It's wrong to keep recruiting from overseas while we have a domestic workforce battling an employment crisis like this. At times like this, it's wrong for those who recruit from overseas to perpetuate the narrative that most UK doctors abandon the UK for Australia, NZ, etc in order to justify overseas recruitment at the expense of the domestic workforce.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/workforce/gps-working-for-free-to-stay-on-performers-list-says-bma/

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/special-investigations/the-recruitment-unemployment-crisis/we-are-jeopardising-the-careers-of-a-whole-generation-of-new-gps/