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Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

1000 replies

PurpleFairyLights · 17/05/2025 22:13

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

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LeviOceanStar · 22/05/2025 14:33

Ok so this is the email I just sent to my MP. I also added a few personal details which I have removed from the copy below.

There are around 13000 places each year in the UK for medical speciality training. This is the training that doctors undertake to become specialists or GPs following on from five years of medical school and two years of foundation training. The problem is that in 2019 the government removed the prioritisation given to UK citizens for these training places. There are now 33000 applicants competing for training places with 63% of applications coming from overseas. Young resident doctors who are UK citizens and have studied and worked in the UK have no priority and now face the real prospect of failing to gain a training place or even becoming unemployed. I believe that we are the only country in the world not to prioritise our own medics in this way.

This represents both an enormous waste of the government's money, given that each medical student costs around 250k to train, and of the potential of our young people. Each young doctor in the UK will have borrowed money to study and spent five years studying and a further two years working in the NHS. Many of them will under the present system be forced to see their careers stagnate, seek alternative employment outside of medicine or emigrate to a country such as Australia which has vacancies.

I would please ask you to hold the government to account for this lack of sensible planning. The UK should follow the lead of every other country in the world in prioritising its own medical graduates and citizens for training places, only advertising them to candidates from abroad if the vacancies cannot be filled.

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 14:49

Watermelonices · 22/05/2025 13:24

“surely those influential within the NHS can't possibly have missed the potential impact of all this on UK “

The mistake you are making is assuming that those influential people within the NHS are British born.

I can’t speak for Drs and can only speak for my trust, but in the case of AHPs in our trust, the workforce planning lead is an immigrant who came over from India a few years ago, worked clinically for a short time and was then promoted into this role. They link with India to employ more AHPs

I agree. The sentence was meant to be persuasive and it worked. We are now discussing the issue.

The links you are noticing are part of the problem. I think I have covered the issue of overseas links in previous posts.

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 14:53

LeviOceanStar · 22/05/2025 14:33

Ok so this is the email I just sent to my MP. I also added a few personal details which I have removed from the copy below.

There are around 13000 places each year in the UK for medical speciality training. This is the training that doctors undertake to become specialists or GPs following on from five years of medical school and two years of foundation training. The problem is that in 2019 the government removed the prioritisation given to UK citizens for these training places. There are now 33000 applicants competing for training places with 63% of applications coming from overseas. Young resident doctors who are UK citizens and have studied and worked in the UK have no priority and now face the real prospect of failing to gain a training place or even becoming unemployed. I believe that we are the only country in the world not to prioritise our own medics in this way.

This represents both an enormous waste of the government's money, given that each medical student costs around 250k to train, and of the potential of our young people. Each young doctor in the UK will have borrowed money to study and spent five years studying and a further two years working in the NHS. Many of them will under the present system be forced to see their careers stagnate, seek alternative employment outside of medicine or emigrate to a country such as Australia which has vacancies.

I would please ask you to hold the government to account for this lack of sensible planning. The UK should follow the lead of every other country in the world in prioritising its own medical graduates and citizens for training places, only advertising them to candidates from abroad if the vacancies cannot be filled.

Thank you. It's a scandal that it's not receiving the level of publicity it deserves.

Abra1t · 22/05/2025 15:06

Wes Streeting is on Threads so I am thinking of using a pared-down and slightly tweaked version of my posts above this morning, with additions from others’, to contact him there.

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 15:17

https://www.indianarrative.com/world-news/india-uk-launch-health-care-alliance-in-tune-with-2030-roadmap-149201.html

Back in 2021, the UK and India as part of post Brexit negotiations launched an alliance. 2030 India UK Roadmap with the influential IMG lobby group (central to the workforce planning) facilitating negotiations.

See the article below from 2022 mentioning deep links between the two countries.

www.iglobalnews.com/amp/story/newsviews/heal-in-india-heal-by-india-new-healthcare-frontier-for-uk

How did they see UK medical students, UK doctors and NHS patients fitting in with these plans? How much of the NHS budget, if at all, was spent on these trips, links, exchanges or whatever.

India, UK launch health care alliance in tune with 2030 roadmap

India and the UK are bolstering their health partnership as a follow-up to their 2030 roadmap resulting from the Modi-Johnson virtual summit.

https://www.indianarrative.com/world-news/india-uk-launch-health-care-alliance-in-tune-with-2030-roadmap-149201.html

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 15:26

LeviOceanStar · 22/05/2025 14:33

Ok so this is the email I just sent to my MP. I also added a few personal details which I have removed from the copy below.

There are around 13000 places each year in the UK for medical speciality training. This is the training that doctors undertake to become specialists or GPs following on from five years of medical school and two years of foundation training. The problem is that in 2019 the government removed the prioritisation given to UK citizens for these training places. There are now 33000 applicants competing for training places with 63% of applications coming from overseas. Young resident doctors who are UK citizens and have studied and worked in the UK have no priority and now face the real prospect of failing to gain a training place or even becoming unemployed. I believe that we are the only country in the world not to prioritise our own medics in this way.

This represents both an enormous waste of the government's money, given that each medical student costs around 250k to train, and of the potential of our young people. Each young doctor in the UK will have borrowed money to study and spent five years studying and a further two years working in the NHS. Many of them will under the present system be forced to see their careers stagnate, seek alternative employment outside of medicine or emigrate to a country such as Australia which has vacancies.

I would please ask you to hold the government to account for this lack of sensible planning. The UK should follow the lead of every other country in the world in prioritising its own medical graduates and citizens for training places, only advertising them to candidates from abroad if the vacancies cannot be filled.

This is excellent thank you! I am going add the graph of what happened before Tories took the brakes off and the check the facts but saw a document that said nearly 50% of trainees in the UK are IMGs

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PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 15:50

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 15:17

https://www.indianarrative.com/world-news/india-uk-launch-health-care-alliance-in-tune-with-2030-roadmap-149201.html

Back in 2021, the UK and India as part of post Brexit negotiations launched an alliance. 2030 India UK Roadmap with the influential IMG lobby group (central to the workforce planning) facilitating negotiations.

See the article below from 2022 mentioning deep links between the two countries.

www.iglobalnews.com/amp/story/newsviews/heal-in-india-heal-by-india-new-healthcare-frontier-for-uk

How did they see UK medical students, UK doctors and NHS patients fitting in with these plans? How much of the NHS budget, if at all, was spent on these trips, links, exchanges or whatever.

UK medical graduates have been so let down

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TurquoiseDress · 22/05/2025 15:55

YANBU

It’s an absolutely awful situation for these doctors to be, after minimum 5 years of medical school

There have always been a number medical graduates waiting til the last moment to be told where their FY1 job will be located…but this year seems to be a significantly high number

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:02

TurquoiseDress · 22/05/2025 15:55

YANBU

It’s an absolutely awful situation for these doctors to be, after minimum 5 years of medical school

There have always been a number medical graduates waiting til the last moment to be told where their FY1 job will be located…but this year seems to be a significantly high number

Seems like UK has become the post graduate training school of the world by incompetence of our successive governments.

This means that we will end up with a workforce that may/may not want to remain in the UK after finishing training.

The UK graduates cannot disappear abroad en masse as NZ and Oz only have a certain number of spaces and the rest of the world protect their doctors.

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PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:03

Do you think we have enough for a petition?

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OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 16:21

The latest from Wes Streeting

questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-statements/detail/2025-05-22/hcws663

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:29

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 16:21

He has been in post nearly a year.

He had enough time to sort this out but did nothing.

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PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:35

A lot of this is to do with Physicians Associates. GP surgeries get funding for PAs but not GPs.

GPs have to check PAs work. PAs cannot prescribe or order xraya. They get paid more than F1s who have done 5 years at medical school. PAs do a two year postgraduate course...

PAs are in hospitals too.

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OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 16:36

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:29

He has been in post nearly a year.

He had enough time to sort this out but did nothing.

Edited

The pay rises of 4% are of no use to those without jobs. I wouldn't be surprised if they strike again. He needs to rectify the unemployment issues asap

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 16:48

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:35

A lot of this is to do with Physicians Associates. GP surgeries get funding for PAs but not GPs.

GPs have to check PAs work. PAs cannot prescribe or order xraya. They get paid more than F1s who have done 5 years at medical school. PAs do a two year postgraduate course...

PAs are in hospitals too.

Yes, I am aware of the PA issues.

Should be called Physicians' Assistants not Associates. Their current title confuses not only patients but the staff at the hospital.

We got told once that there were 2 doctors available to see my DC. Turns out she was a PA. Very nice but not a doctor. She did introduce herself the first time as a PA. The next time we saw her she didn't introduce herself at all. I don't know whether it's because of the recent stories about PAs but she didn't introduce herself. Someone else could have thought she was a doctor.

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:51

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 16:36

The pay rises of 4% are of no use to those without jobs. I wouldn't be surprised if they strike again. He needs to rectify the unemployment issues asap

Absolutely right! I am getting more angry by the day. Especially hearing about the multiple gravy trains.

If the general public only knew...unfortunately it is a system that is hard to understand

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Watermelonices · 22/05/2025 17:04

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 14:32

This is really off. Has anyone challenged them about this?

Unemployed UK trained doctors and nurses and this goes on?

How do you challenge without looking racist? It’s win win for them, they are untouchable because no one can challenge, especially us mere mortal clinical staff. We are AHP but I’m betting it’s the same for drs and nurses. They’ll have their own workforce planners sat at band 8+ a nice salary for sitting in an office all day.

The management are clueless and don’t care as long as posts are filled, You can imagine them all sat in meetings congratulating each other on coming up with these hair brained ideas, and creating non clinical roles for each other, while the actual clinical workforce gets smaller, but that is another issue!

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 17:08

Watermelonices · 22/05/2025 17:04

How do you challenge without looking racist? It’s win win for them, they are untouchable because no one can challenge, especially us mere mortal clinical staff. We are AHP but I’m betting it’s the same for drs and nurses. They’ll have their own workforce planners sat at band 8+ a nice salary for sitting in an office all day.

The management are clueless and don’t care as long as posts are filled, You can imagine them all sat in meetings congratulating each other on coming up with these hair brained ideas, and creating non clinical roles for each other, while the actual clinical workforce gets smaller, but that is another issue!

That is the problem. But are all other countries that protect their medical graduates racist?

This is really not about race but the mere mention make most people not to want to get involved except right wing politicians.

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OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 17:16

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 16:51

Absolutely right! I am getting more angry by the day. Especially hearing about the multiple gravy trains.

If the general public only knew...unfortunately it is a system that is hard to understand

It is incredibly difficult to understand. Once they start striking, I am certain the public will not have sympathy at all for doctors sadly. The Resident Doctors wanted prioritisation. This was opposed by many powerful forces. It's difficult to understand it. Doctors come and go but the IMG lobby leaders have held their positions for decades and taken the government to court before on prioritisation issues and won. Over the years the lobby group has expanded their influence and their businesses and the group is highly active within NHS workforce planning. It's their conflict of interests that is questionable perhaps along with how their decision making is impacting the domestic workforce and the NHS budget.

PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 17:26

OneMorePiece · 22/05/2025 17:16

It is incredibly difficult to understand. Once they start striking, I am certain the public will not have sympathy at all for doctors sadly. The Resident Doctors wanted prioritisation. This was opposed by many powerful forces. It's difficult to understand it. Doctors come and go but the IMG lobby leaders have held their positions for decades and taken the government to court before on prioritisation issues and won. Over the years the lobby group has expanded their influence and their businesses and the group is highly active within NHS workforce planning. It's their conflict of interests that is questionable perhaps along with how their decision making is impacting the domestic workforce and the NHS budget.

Sounds like nobody can do anything. NHS does not protect whistleblowers.

This is just so depressing.

While our DC were studying to become doctors and accumulating 100k+ in debt these people were taking away any chance of a future.

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PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 17:29

TurquoiseDress · 22/05/2025 15:55

YANBU

It’s an absolutely awful situation for these doctors to be, after minimum 5 years of medical school

There have always been a number medical graduates waiting til the last moment to be told where their FY1 job will be located…but this year seems to be a significantly high number

Someone said on this thread that doctors worldwide can apply for foundation training posts as well as the specialty training posts.

OP posts:
PurpleFairyLights · 22/05/2025 17:47

Abra1t · 22/05/2025 15:06

Wes Streeting is on Threads so I am thinking of using a pared-down and slightly tweaked version of my posts above this morning, with additions from others’, to contact him there.

Edited

Please do!

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