Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

Yep!

In general, doctors in the UK, especially consultants and GP partners, are among the highest earners in the UK labor market, with many earning well above the national average. Specifically, GP partners can earn significantly more than salaried GPs. While the precise salary ranges vary depending on experience, location, and specialty, doctors typically earn more than the average UK employee.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Salaried GPs:
Salaries range from £68,975 to £104,085 in England, with higher ranges in Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland.

GP Partners:
GP partners, who are business owners of their practices, can earn significantly more, with many exceeding £140,000 per year.

Other Doctors:
Doctors in other specialties, such as consultants, also earn well above the national average.

Junior Doctors:
Basic pay for junior doctors in England starts around £32,397, with average total earnings around £41,300 for those in their first year of practice. Specialty registrars towards the end of their training can expect average total earnings of around £71,300.

Comparison to other professions:
Doctors are one of the highest-earning groups in the UK, with median incomes significantly higher than the national average. For example, in 2017, the median income of doctors was £75,577, while the median income across all professional groups was £38,053, according to The BMJ.

Isn't some of the issue that surgery is popular so attracts a bigger share of young doctors wanting to do it.

I suspect less popular specialisms are less oversubscribed

Genuine question. If you were to drop down right now with a catastrophic brain bleed requiring you to be blue lighted to your nearest neurosurgical centre to have life saving surgery…how much do you reckon the night shift neurosurgical registrar who operated on your brain might be on?

Pretty decent:-

Registrars, especially in the NHS context, generally earn a salary ranging from £43,923 to £70,425 per year, with an average of around £50,000. This range can vary based on experience, location, and whether the registrar is in core training, specialty training, or a more advanced role. For example, core training registrars may start at £43,923, while those in higher-level training or specialist roles can earn up to £70,425.

And after 6 years you can apply to be a consultant.

Not bad for just 4 years out of uni

Okay. As a disclaimer I’m not a neurosurgeon. But I’m not sure I’d describe an average of 50-60K as a ‘stonking salary’ for someone performing complex brain surgery independently at 2am.

It's not that easy moving through the ranks, especially if the jobs are not available to start with.

Well a lot of people do demanding jobs for a lot less and for many people with degrees that amount is massive.

Same as any sector

Feel I have to wade in having dipped in and out of this thread this evening. I think it's fair to say that most people do not have a clue about the employment crisis in the NHS unless they know someone working in the service. They also don't understand that at the end of FY2 doctor's contracts finish.

One of my dc's is a resident/junior doctor, not yet on any training programmes they have not applied this cycle. They worry constantly about whether or not they will get a training programme. `Most people don't realise that doctors do not just get up and go to work every day. To progress in their careers there are lots of exams along the way which they have to pay for. In addition to this, to score the points that people have mentioned they also need to do as many of the following as they can: present at a conference, get their name on a published paper, teach undergrads, organize teaching programmes, devise and write several audits etc. This requires lots of additional work and finding more senior staff to agree to some of this. Without any of this they will be down on points and are constantly looking for something to make them stand out from all the others.

Their jobs are hard. They are paid a comparatively low wage for massive levels of responsibility, especially on weekends and nights when there are less senior staff around. To those doctor-bashers, ( which always surprise me, who do people think will save them if they have an illness or accident?), like it or not, we need doctors. We need a positive, well paid, well-educated group of people who are willing and able to look after us when we are at our most vulnerable. Any civilised society needs that. We need to have jobs for these people to ensure that there are always new specialists up and coming in their chosen area. Competition for training posts rises year on year which means less and less chance for these young doctors to be trained. Whoever suggested that they can work in the private sector, that would be many, many years away. This is part of the problem, there is no where else other than the NHS for our young doctors to go. Since my dc started their training, the shortage of training places has risen exponentially. When I asked them where they would apply they just replied that they will go anywhere in the country if it means they have got a job. This is someone who really enjoys their specialism and is desperate to work in it.

This issue needs wider exposure, I am all for healthy competition and don’t think that doctors are special but it is not a level playing field now.

This is just one example but I am sure that there are many such cases throughout the country.
Cambridge educated, foundation jobs in busy London hospitals ( 2 years ) and Core surgical training ( 2 years ) , published , hard working, pleasant and he wanted to get a year of non training job ( to consolidate his cv, gain more experience) but unable to get a job. He applied to my hospital but there were hundreds of applications and the job was given to IMG with years of experience. How can he compete ? What else does he need to do to get a job!! It is utterly bonkers now , government has to address this as soon as possible.

I am saying this as an oversees educated doctor who worked through the NHS and this is the worst I have seen in terms of recruitment crisis.

But all graduates need to have that mentality .

Junior doctors have pushed hard for higher pay.

The government are skint and basically can't afford it. The easiest way to reduce pay disputes is to ensure an oversupply, so that those doctors who do get posts are simply glad to be employed at all rather than whinging for higher pay.

Not to mention, fighting for higher pay makes the job ever more attractive to IMGs who can't earn as much in their home countries.

It’s not massive in any sense, certainly not for an experienced medic. What makes medicine comparable to other “demanding” jobs?

To be fair he/she is just experiencing what non privately educated, non Oxbridge graduates up and down the country experience. Privilege shouldn’t guarantee you anything.

That said I do think NHS jobs should go to uk trained doctors and nurses first .

If you get it wrong someone can die.

I think you’re putting doctors in an ivory tower. They should get a good wage and do. Other sectors are deserving of far higher wages and don’t get them.

Lots of jobs can risk life if there are screw ups

@PurpleFairyLights My posts don’t equate to not liking doctors. I think there’s too much moaning from a well paid workforce with exceptionally good pensions who receive training paid for by the state - that’s me of course.

The whole thread though is woe is me. I’m so clever but I’m hard done by. There’s over production of doctors right now (I agree that’s wrong) but we know why that’s happened. No parent didn’t celebrate when dc got into medical school! Of course you did. However there needs to be a dose of realism.

Being a doctor has always been seen as superior with a vastly superior pension and early retirement. Yes, the work to get there is hard but the compensation is better than most get and a very good chance of living and working in an area with cheaper housing once settled.

I don’t buy the “we save lives” bit. Some do but plenty don’t! My dh has a skill that means building don’t collapse. Lots of people have skills we need. Also anyone who’s been near a geriatric ward in a hospital might be forgiven for thinking doctors are not Gods - other then you don’t see them or get to talk to them. I use private medicine. I’m sure anyone I’ve seen isn’t on their uppers. It’s a well paid career - hence the angst at not accessing it.

How on earth do you know they were privately educated? My brother did his undergraduate degree at Cambridge and we are both from the local comp!

I’m pretty certain the fact the doctor was educated at Cambridge was mentioned to prove what a good candidate they were, not that they were privileged.

Yes, I know. I was arguing against that poster claiming medicine paid comparatively well.

This person is smart, competent, well educated and has all the attributes of a good doctor and can’t get a job and is happy to go anywhere in the country! Just an example of who I happen to know, I did say that there are other people in similar situation.. never said that he should be guaranteed a job but has done absolutely everything a person can do for his level of training.

Well we know private schools
and grammars are over represented at Oxbridge so🤷‍♀️An Oxbridge education is a privilege in itself and actually why mention it? Graduates from other unis may well be better and have better experience.

Like many graduates in many sectors. It’s life in 2025 Britain. People live and work longer.

If you get it wrong someone can die.

The same is true of railway engineers, car mechanics, firemen/women, nurses, electricians, and loads of other jobs.