Junior Doctors Unemployment in August

[PurpleFairyLights]

Name changed but long term poster. Have a child that is in this situation with 100k of student debt.

https://www.itv.com/news/granada/2025-05-07/bma-we-could-potentially-see-thousands-of-unemployed-doctors

Unbelievable this was allowed. Most countries protect their medical graduates.

And it’s unit my suggestion - no one in power is talking about it. I just think it would be an alternative way of giving a pay rise that costs less to government.

Unemployed doctors repay nothing.

It’s not a case of ‘no competition’. Across all specialties, UK trained doctors would have had significant competition between each other alone in 2025 due to the ever rising numbers of medical graduates and static speciality numbers. But adding in an additional 20,000 doctors trained abroad, the competition statistics are ludicrous. And this isn’t to be a neurosurgeon or a helicopter doctor…this is literally to do any form of training, including in areas previously considered very undesirable.

But yes! In a roundabout way I do agree with you. I don’t understand why more taxpayers aren’t up in arms about this to be honest. I’d love to see the financial decisions behind exponentially increasing medical school places alongside a relative lack of jobs. It seems completely counterintuitive.

But the loans company isn’t going to do that for free and will expect the government to make up the shortfall. Why should the government fund the degree of the most privileged students?

This though!

It’s good that people are starting to wake up to this issue. Massive waiting lists and unemployed doctors don’t tally. Money for the PA project. People who earn 50% more than doctors after a 18 month diploma (and can fave a first degree in English). Taking training jobs from doctors.

Want a doctor for your kids or elderly parents ? Then you’re going to have your fight with them.

https://bapiotrainingacademy.com/foundation-programme/

Unfortunately yes, usually wealthy IMGs secure foundation year training places through courses like the above. It appears that PLAB licensing exams are not required for the course above.

IMGs still overseas are charged £32k plus each by these academies for some courses. Not sure what proportion, if any at all, the NHS receives. Fast track courses for IMGs outside the UK into foundation and speciality training places in the NHS.

The lobby group, BAPIO's lucrative training academy have a sponsorship licence from the GMC so they can recruit easily from abroad for NHS roles and they do so without a legal requirement to recruit from the domestic workforce. BAPIO is highly influential in NHS workforce planning. Without the RLMT or similar being reinstated, I'm not sure how the issues of unemployed doctors is going to get resolved. The GMC also needs to pause PLAB exams if limited jobs are available.

It’s grossly unfair to say doctors cannot move around the country but other grads can. Doctors need to move away from thinking they are more special than everyone else. Yes they have one employer and have had the biggest pay rise of anyone last year. There are always consequences to government action and now it’s trusts not taking newly qualified doctors. Law grads have found this out the hard way for years.

You really dislike doctors don't you? We are not saying doctors cannot move around the country. Why are you deliberately misunderstanding and writing goading posts?

You are coming across as very ignorant

I have a lot of ‘professionals’ in my family (think teachers, engineers, solicitor etc) and I am really struggling to think of another profession that is expected to uproot every 6-12 months, if your lucky maybe 20 miles away, if you are unlucky maybe 120 miles away, and everything inbetween.

I certainly don’t think I am more special than any of my relatives. And neither do most of my colleges. But most of us are scratching our heads at the decision making process that has led to this utter employment mess now. The point of the thread originally was about IMGs. While their recruitment plays a part, the issues are much wider. Trying to change that isn’t thinking we are ‘special’.

@TizerorFizz has provided useful advice for engineering but unfortunately seems not to understand the issues doctors are facing in the UK. In the UK as I understand it, doctors can't work privately or train outside the NHS until they are consultants. Until they become consultants, training can only be undertaken with the NHS. For law, it may be difficult to secure a training contract. However there are many law firms and businesses through which you could qualify as a solicitor although it's very competitive.

Well those in the forces have to move continuously on a lot less

That's not true though is it. Living on the patch or in the block is cheap as chips and theres more of a community to lean on along with welfare. Your postings after basic and trade training are longer than 6-12 months, you apply for accommodation but don't have to search for it yourself and hope you can find a private rental, plus you get GYHP etc if you live away from family during the week.

Edit to add: also it's possible to reach lance jack within a year and a half of joining which is the same salary as a junior doctor, not too bad considering a lot of trades don't require any formal qualifications.

Well, seeing as this has descended into whataboutery, people in the forces have their moving costs and accommodation subsidised (which doctors don’t) and, I’m pretty sure they don’t actually move every year after basic training. So not really equivalent.

Forces life is tough and wages aren’t particularly high, the careers of spouses are impacted as is home ownership and impact on children.

Then start your own thread. This thread is specifically about recruitment of junior doctors. I’m sure there would be a lot of sympathy for you. You don’t need to pull down another profession to prove that.

Aye, but none of that means people should dismiss the concerns of doctors who quite rightly point out moving around the country often at late notice is disruptive and pointless, nor correct untruths about military having this particular aspect harder.

What do you think doctors spouses and children do BTW when they get their training allocation at the other side of the country?

Oh please there is a reason medicine is a highly desirable career. Yes the high numbers of doctors and nurses from abroad needs to be looked at but let’s not portray doctors as victims- they’re far from it.

Thank you. What is wrong with these people going on about armed forces, civil service etc on a thread about doctors?

Ridiculous inability to read the room.

The system treats them like crap, why wouldn't we want better for doctors in this country?

It’s not comparable! Theyre paid far more with golden pensions and moving isn’t continuous. Forces families are on waaay less with a spouse
who will find progressing through a career and finding work hard. They don’t have a doctor’s salary and are more likely to have to manage on one salary.

I don’t think a single person has portrayed doctors as victims on this thread. We are all grown ups, we can deal with recruitment issues even if it is really rubbish. Indeed if you look back through my posts you’ll see I’ve said ‘we need to be careful not to put medicine on a pedestal’ as I don’t think we are outliers in having a pretty rubbish time with recruitment currently.

They have stonking salaries and pensions. Yes they need jobs and the foreign import situation looked at but other than that sorry no they don’t need things a lot better.

It’s about this started to get on the radar of the general public. There is also a massive problem with unemployment or underemployment amongst GPs at the moment. Literally thousands of fully trained and experienced (as well as newly qualified) doctors unable to find jobs in primary care. Yet demand is never met…

Stonking salaries?

NHS doctors are paid substantially less than doctors in any comparable country around the world, the way they are treated during the allocation process is awful, and there are many issues currently causing problems. Just because you're ignorant to them or think just as they're paid more than you probably are they shouldn't complain or wish for better treatment, doesn't mean that's a decent take.