How does learning to read really work ? When does the c - a - t sounding out stop ?

[fonic]

Hello very smart ladies of Mumsnet. I’m curious about the learning to read process. My DD is in reception.

She has gone from learning single letter sounds M A etc, to blending the sounds C - A - T. Etc. all fine.

now she’s moving through the RWI programme with the different books. She recognises some words really well- especially the red words of course- like AND and THE. Here she sees it and doesn’t need to sound it out, she just knows it by sight reading.

but lots of other words, she still needs to sound out. I see her fluency getting better, but it’s quite a slow process.

how does this work ? Does it just go on like this for ages ?

she seems to be moving through the book bands and the sentences are getting longer, but I do wonder how she’s actually processing as I can’t always tell that it’s much better. She’s on the pink books now, if that helps. Which should mean she’s doing alright, but I just can’t always see it when she reads.

it’s probably not helped by the fact that she often doesn’t want to do her reading practice and isn’t in the mood for it, so she doesn’t really try.

Hi OP, primary teacher here. This is completely normal for reception. It does take time, and often the books are quite boring, as there is only so much you can write about with words like cat and mat! Keep reading more interesting stories to her to maintain her interest in reading. My DD could blend well by the end of reception, but reading has always come very naturally to her. Her younger sister, who starts school in September, will take longer I think.
I have had children still sounding out by Y3 and having phonics interventions in early KS2, but these are generally children who find reading challenging. I’d definitely expect more sounding out in Y1, and increased fluency by Y2. Hope that helps!

My DC just seemed to click with this at a certain point, my younger one is learning quicker than the older one so I think around year 1/year 2.

If she's RWI and moving through the books, it's time to start "Fred in your Head", kind of explains. I add an intermediate stage of "whisper Fred" where they whisper the sound as quiet as they can before attempting the blend. Try it with easier books or green words just. Agree though it's totally normal!

I teach RWI, pink is good for this point in reception. Reading the same book several times helps with fluency so reading at home is really important. Try getting her to “Fred in your head” - think the sounds then say the word rather than saying each sound. Also make sure you read the story words inside the cover before reading the book so the trickier words are not completely new to her. It is a slow process but it sounds like she’s doing well!

Yeah she’s been learning Fred in your head for ages, she just doesn’t always do it. I guess I should remind her every time. But I also don’t want to discourage her. She gets easily put off if I get too involved..

She never wants to read the words at the beginning. It’s so frustrating. She has to do it her way, otherwise she just won’t do it at all. She just doesn’t enjoy it.

Op she may click she's still very young but she also there is a chance she doesn't like phonics

If she gets words by site reading maybe try that?

Just be patient because it really does work. By this stage in Y2, she will most likely be a fairly fluent reader. The progress they make over Y1 and Y2 is enormous. Mine was fairly reluctant to read in Reception but is much more willing now and can read when tired etc - it just isn't nearly as much effort anymore so she's much happier to do it.

I would say she generally has really enjoyed the phonics stage with the cards and single letter sounds and also the more complex sounds. Just getting her so sit down and want to do her reading is tough. We read once a week maybe. Sometimes twice. Sometimes not at all.

on the positive side, recently she’s just been picking up and reading the books by herself a couple of times, without me asking her to do it. Perhaps we are on the cusp of something !

Some children don’t like phonics and that’s fine. I would do as suggested above look for other books to read to her and with her. Its all
very repetitive and boring if you don’t enjoy it.

Sorry, I was going to suggest the dandelion readers books. I use them for older children who didn’t get the results from phonics and work now on memory reading.

I feel your pain. My eldest just didn’t get phonics. Could do all the letters. But c a t spells cat - didn’t get it. Honestly it drove me insane.

It was 16 years ago but I feel it like yesterday. I spoke to a lot of headteachers, phonics experts etc and home educators. I was recommended a programme of 20 lessons / no pictures in the book, kind of cartoons but not - just words really and it blends both phonics and sight. So I brought it. 6 months later she was a fluent reader doing 10 minutes a day with me and she loved it. I also used it to teach the next one - as they were partly deaf I was a bit worried it might be more of a challenge but they were the same 6 months fluent. I thank the person that recommended it - every time I think of it. Eldest had a reading age of 18 by Year 7. We also followed the same series of books for Maths as I was so impressed by the Reading one. Eldest did gcse maths in year 9 and youngest in year 8. A friend’s child was struggling with maths and I lent her the books and within about 6 months she was on book 3 and doing gcse stuff and ‘got it’. I will message you the book - if I still had a copy I would send you one.

Lots of word play games will help so that she internally manipulates sounds. Think ‘cat beginning with ‘p’(pat), hot beginning with ‘t’ (tot), then change ending sounds.She can identify and say the sounds which is a great start. The next step is to internally put the sounds together, Fred in her head as per RWI.

This is confusing - she’d been able to blend sounds for ages..

If she's picking u up books on her own then leave her op don't push anything else at the moment
Some people do learn to read by a variety of ways which can't be considered by school because they are shackled into the phonics tests so they have to push phonics.
A curiosity for books and reading is far more healthy and powerful.
I've never pushed reading but gone with each child's flow (one got phonics but would have got anything and the other found phonics to be a barrier to reading) and supported them how they needed.

One of my kids enjoyed the Songbird readers. She had the whole set and we didn't sort them by difficulty level, just read whichever she wanted to read.

There are lots of ideas for reading in games for learning. We used some of the little games in that. We also liked zingo (bingo with sight words) and rhyme robber (orchard toys)

It’s a developmental stage that usually kicks in around 6.

I’m really trying not to push her force her to read when she doesn’t want to.

that’s why we don’t do it that often. I figure she’s only 5 and her teachers aren’t saying she’s behind, quite the opposite actually. She’s doing ok but I’m finding it so slow and as I don’t know how it works / how fast it should work, I am just curious about the process.

It is wearing but they are making progress as long as they keep practicing. The school changed the phonics scheme for my youngest which definitely helped. Both my kids became fluent towards the middle - end of year 1.

Do you read bedtime stories to her, as a totally separate activity?
I did this with mine, and always pointed to the words as I read. I'm sure that this reinforced all the formal learning to read stuff.

Yeah of course we read bed time stories.

Op when you read to her point at the words as you go. This is a technique and some people actually learn to read by this method.

How did you learn?

I think that’s how I learnt. Just sight reading and repetition. I think that’s how it used to be, right ?

I remember sounding out each letter of the words as well though. I think it’s a natural stage of reading.

I still sound out medical terms that I can’t sight read.

I didn’t start school until I was 6, almost 7 though- Europe.

To start with pink at this point in reception is exceeding expectations. For pink book and orange that comes next it is very normal to sound out. From yellow we would expect more emphasis on fred in your head. To move from yellow to blue children need to be reading about 60-70 words per minute so start to get quite fluent. Once pupils finish RWI they should be reading 80-90+ words per minute.
In terms of expected expectations pupils should be assessed as green by end of reception, blue by end of year one and off program by end of year two.
My only advice is she should be reading daily and will only build fluency if she rereads books.