When did parents stop being the boss

[Justsayno123]

Completely aware that I sound like some 'outraged from Surbiton' letter into the Daily Fail... But when did parents stop being in charge of their kids?!

I live in a nice area and socialise with a lot of parents. These are well educated people who have achieved some degree of success in their lives and live in relative comfort. No SEN and a lot of the time the children are onlies. So many conversations recently where the other parent says 'well, I just can't make them' or 'I have to give them that choice' or 'I've given up on that one'. Examples of these things include phone usage, bedtime, mealtimes, attending events, or just essentially anything the child doesn't enthusiastically agree to do. I normally just smile politely but I want to scream at them to just take charge! You can make decisions to stop your child doing something which is not in their best interest. You have a duty to try to inculcate healthy ways of living - for their mental and physical health. That is literally your purpose as a parent. Urgh, I literally despair for the future.

My Mum made a similar comment recently and how she wouldn’t have been able to behave like my 13 year old niece is.

But it struck me - my Mum only tolerated her Mother and her sibling was estranged for 30 years before her death.

So maybe parenting in that way isn’t so great after all. Unless you’re happy that your kids have no real relationship with you once they have a choice.

There's a reason there is a backlash against gentle parenting. Because by and large, it is too permissive. I think the idea of it and behind it is good, but the day to day reality of it is kids running rings around parents.

I'd say 90% of the population absolutely already are understanding of children having less regulated behaviour and emotions. We all indulge and understand tantrums, tiredness, lack of concentration.

Much of the world sees the Western approach to child rearing as very bad and I would argue that the gentle parenting approach is peak bad using this lens.

'There’s a tendency to view children in the UK, and in the Western world in general, as incompetent and dependent. But this isn’t the case throughout the world. In many societies children work and contribute to the family in whatever way that can from a very early age.'
Different cultures, different childhoods | OpenLearn - Open University

Yes, for all that I love my parents dearly, they were not always the most emotionally in tune. A product of their time and they were doing their best. They certainly talked a lot more about stuff than the preceding generations where things were really hushed up and brushed under the carpet.

So....due to unfortunate circumstances....I was the only parent to my two now adult children...I had to be tough but also loving....both are amazing people who I'm SO proud of....they have very important jobs...can't say ..out too outing.. ..but I now have the pleasure of helping with childcare for my grandchildren....as I've been told MANY time that I was a strong caring MUM ...but you really need to be the Boss ...Little people and even more so teenagers need structure..too many young parents have been failed by they own parents....and so on...x

YOu're not goign to agree with me and I'm not going to agree withyou. But, for the record, I think small children should be on laps when there's too few seats and children older than about 10 should give up their seat (assuming they are capable of standing). I think that this kind of respect and kindness and general rules is a nice thing to do and have. I don't really know when it became such a contentious issue but I suspect that this will be another one of this things that divides the world into people I want to be friends with vs people I don't. And that's fine.

I'm in my mid 40's and my parents didn't think I should be obedient, they encouraged me to think for myself so it isn't a new way of thinking IME. Equally, I only had one friend who was smacked as a little child in the late 80s. And as teenagers we didn't have any of these American imported ideas of punishments like 'Grounding'. Maybe my friendship group was unusual, I doubt it though. As part of her job in the early 80s my Mum did complete physchology courses on child development, which informed her parental techniques, I woul imagine that was exceptional in those days but I still didn't know a majority of children that were shouted at and hit. The well known (in the neighbourhood) badly behaved child was regularly shouted at so I don't think it worked!

You don’t say how old they are (sorry if I missed it if you did) but think that’s relevant. Are your DC younger or the same age?

This type of approach I would see as more appropriate to older teenagers, who respond better to and learn more from a guidance approach rather than a lights off enforcement.

To a greater extent teens need scope to learn from their own mistakes eg: cope with impact of late night because they were up scrolling TikTok.

If you are speaking about ‘wishy washy’ parenting of young DC, it’s simply a parenting choice by your friends. You can either accept their parenting style is different from yours or pick new friends with more similar values.

Stopping physical punishment in schools in the mid-80s, the children’s act in 1989 plus more recently the gentle parenting movement are broader contexts.

I wholly agree with @BigFatLiar
Even my teen DCs think that this is a problem too. One of them has now actually said they could understand why we put boundaries in place and didn’t act as their friend.

This. I wonder what went wrong with this better understanding routine? 🤷‍♀️

Children need boundaries and to be taught to respect others.

I'm nearing 60, and no, we never shouted or hit. We talked to them, respected them, explained our rules and boundaries (sometimes realising that they were a bit random and could use re-thinking), listened to them, chose our battles and enjoyed spending time with them. I'm not saying every minute was fantastic - it wasn't, but we tried to approach being parents with thought and care.

Maybe we were just lucky, but we weren't overly strict and didn't have any real issues with any of our 3 and they're all productive members of society and we still love spending time with them as young adults.

My husband grew up in a very authoritarian household and there was lots of arguement, lying and trying to avoid blame and consequences. It worked out very badly for one of his siblings.

Adding that we did, however, have routine and structure and family dinners whenever possible.

We did this as well - they're consider polite well mannered and helpful people.

I see many insist that kids are too young to learn how to behave - I think it's easiest when they are young.

But as other posters have said childcare and both parenst working can mean overindulgence when they spent time together for some parents - by no means all.

I do see a lot of ineffectual parenting - often trying complex reasoning with very young kids or flapping round but not being very clear about what's needed so kids ignore.

Parents have always picked their battles. I think there are completely unprecedented levels of infringement on family boundaries and parents are exhausted by having to edit and curate their children's lives so energetically to put risks and dangers at bay and just give up.

When I was little in the 1970s there was barely any children's TV. We read books, rode our bicycles, played board games and in the gardens of neighbouring children. Weekends were spent with grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins or hanging out while our parents gardened and decorated. Our parents didn't have to energetically curate our environments to keep us safe.

I love my dc with all my heart but I’m their parent not their friend.

I believe lazy gentle parenting also has a lot to do with it and fear of using the words naughty or no. If my dc walloped another child at playgroup, I certainly would not be just telling them ‘kind hands’. I would be removing them from the area.

You only hear a bit of their lives, op, no doubt they are assertive at times and in different ways. I was an easy going parent, gave my son choices, was sympathetic to his feelings, what was important to him at the time and we would discuss things but I, and husband, also set some boundaries. I received criticism occasionally (from people like grandparents, but we wore that with no problem. Mine will be 46 this year and is fine, has a great career, plenty of friends and is a very kind person with.a highly developed social conscience.

You have to live with people to know how their family and home dynamic works and, certainly, nobody should judge someone else's parenting unless they are obviously abusive. The ones you know will no doubt turn out fine, it's not your business.

I completely agree with you. In the past parents were very much in charge.Now it's almost like it's seen as abuse and control if you try lay down some house rules. Or you be firm , or even raise your voice slightly. I'm struggling with my child , who says things like "if I don't want to I don't have to". "Is noone allowed to have opinions in this house" "you are so moody" , when I ask them to do something or I will tell grandma, or just start moaning and saying you don't like me. I'm very worried for my child. I often feel really guilty if I raise my voice, they make out they are so hard done by and I'm somehow toxic , if I say anything they don't like. I am a very warm, kind and affectionate mother and I try my best with boundaries and I always respond to situations calmly first time round , but they push and push until I snap.
When you say just take charge, I'd honestly love to take a leaf out of your book. Do you have any advice? Because I certainly feel no matter how hard I try this child is adamant they will not be listening. I feel there are some traits of oppositional defiant disorder. It doesn't help I'm a single mother with no support , noone to back me up actually his older teenage brother encourages it . It's very hard

It is part of growing up, which has shifted to a significantly younger age than before.
About choosing a life partner, that is something for grownups to do.

"So sometimes you have to make a call on what is right for him, even if he doesn't like it, yes?"

I have some absolute boundaries, mainly around safety but I believe behaviour is communication ( particularly with my son because he is non verbal) and I approach parenting from that perspective. I look at what I want the long term outcome to be rather than taking an authoritarian approach. For example if my son was refusing to get on school transport I would be considering what the problem might be rather than trying to force him on.

Well if they have an invisible disability they also shouldn't stand or could ask for a seat. TFL will give you a badge. I have one. Point is, it's quite rare for there not to be a single able bodied adult on public transport. Being a child is usually quite obvious to everyone. I wouldn't want my 5 yo standing on a bus. In fact, if we are on a train or bus and there's no seats, an adult will usually offer her a seat because she's obviously less able to stand.

As mentioned this is just my friends and my experience, but as it’s almost all my friends it seems like it may be common (or it may not!). I would imagine that your DC and their friends are probably good parents if they themselves have had good parents, which means they’re probably not the subject of this thread

My dcs are young adults now.

Ive never bought into the ‘well I can’t make them’. I know that by most standards, I was strict and ‘over the top’ (eg with my dcs bedtime).
However, it is true that there are things where you simply can’t say ‘my house my rules’.

eg I avoided any screens fir many many years. Until the dcs were around 8~9yo and it was clear it was impacting their social life. No XBox=no play date for example.

Then they started secondary school…..
School used iPads in class so each child had to have a personal iPad. Where homework was.
Now try and control the use of iPads when they’re also used for school work. When you don’t have full control of the iPad (because school needs access) etc….
Limit screen time? Forget it. The best we managed was to ensure they’d spend as much as possible outside the house doing other activities.

And then of course, you have the fact that, each child is different and often, it works much better to have a flexible approach that a one size fits all rules.
eg A night owl child won’t respond well to an early bedtime. (And yes they exist! I’ve met a 6 months old baby fighting sleep just because there was some of her parents friends around. She is now 18yo and still doesn’t go to bed until 12.00am. Never has and never will).

So yes I get why you say that it looks like some parents are giving up.
But your aproach ‘my house, my rules’? It’s totally unrealistic and over the top.

Same in our house, exactly how we like to parent and I'm 42 and kids are under 10

Also, just to add to this, I think that teaching children general rules of society helps them. I have a friend who while she expects general politeness, felt that this obsession with please and thank you iin the UK was silly. And she didn't feel the need to impose it on her children.

But the problem is that quite frankly, it makes her children come across as quite rude. And she has acknowledged that she made a mistake as they get older because the older one has really struggled with behaviour at school ... she felt that he didn't need to learn the "norms" and the result was tha he behaved in ways the school didnt like and it set him back. She's corrrecting this for her other chidlren who are younger.

It doesn’t have to be this way. I’m very loving with my very wilful DS but I am in charge and what I say goes. I get the impression some of DS’s friends think I’m almost too firm, but it’s because DS is a handful and pushes boundaries- if he’s was very compliant I wouldn’t need to be firm!

If he’s “naughty” then there’s no TV for X number of days or no biscuits or whatever. We’ve never let him play on phones, iPads or computer games. I will be holding out against a phone and social media for as long as possible. I wanted DS to have a “traditional” childhood of being outdoors a lot, getting muddy and climbing trees, lots of “small world” imaginative play and books, so that’s what we do. He watches plenty of TV but we monitor content.

I actually think there’s a big correlation between rising age of parents and getting to be too tired to be parenting teens, so giving in to them for a quiet life (I’m an older Mum myself). I don’t blame parents for this as we’re all working and completely knackered, but you don’t help the child by letting them have loads of tech and time hiding away in their room or giving in to their every demand.

Where we're disagreeing is you seem to think that giving up a seat is a mark of respect and that children should demonstrate unconditional respect to anyone older than them.

I think giving up a seat is something you do because someone else needs it more than you do, and that people of all ages deserve equal respect. I have an invisible disability and find standing hard but I wouldn't assume I'm less able to stand than a 10 yo, they don't yet have the muscle tone of an adult.

On a point of practicality, I wonder if you've ever tried going anywhere with an 8 yo on your lap.

No, my rules can be adapted to suit the actual reality of life, but still can be my rules!

I'm afraid I also don't buy in to letting children do everything just because other kids do. In some circumstances, it's a matter of 'we don't do that, and here's why'. The rules are not arbitrary, they are derived from some consideration, hence they can be calmly explained. A lot of the time, when I have decided to enforce a boundary, I have actually seen my children be relieved and/or get over it very quickly.