Mayflower primary school - nappy changing facilities for school aged children

[2011j]

AIBU to think this shouldn't be necessary?

Not including those with sen, children should be potty trained before starting school - AIBU?

Presumably children with undiagnosed special needs were every bit as (if not more) common 20/30/40 years ago? So why is there an issue now?

I personally think that one of the main factors is a change in parenting advice and culture. Parents used to be told to potty train from 18 months (sometimes earlier). Now parents are told to look for signs of "readiness" and that it's not uncommon for a child not to be potty trained at 3/4+ years. Parents look around them and see other older children still in nappies and have no expectations that a child could be toilet trained at 2 or younger. It has just become the norm to wait until they're older now and not to "rush". Also disposable nappies make it harder to connect weeing with the sensation of feeling wet.

As others have alluded to, being in nappies is also no longer a barrier to going to preschool, so there is less incentive too.

My children are older and 3 out of 4 were out of daytime nappies by 2 1/2. The oldest (likely SN) was a bit over 3. That was completely standard and normal at the time.

Where I was, there were weekly or fortnightly clinics that anyone could drop in to whenever they wanted. Just to get baby weighed if you wanted, or to ask questions if you were worried about something.
I mean, if you didn't have issues, you didn't go, so perhaps that was the case for you ?

Hmm not sure about that My DS was in nursery when I was potty training. I informed them of this and they also took him to the toilet while he was there. So can't see the link

The clinics always operated during working hours as far as I can remember

Can you imagine the outrage form parents who can't cope with visitors? Their human rights are breached when a HV knocks on their door, apparently.

What a cheek

couldn’t you say no I think this is your job not the schools

Surely a 9 year old can change their own nappy. Obviously unless there are sever disabilities as stated in OP's first post.

I've had friends whose child was in a nursery they expected the child to be potty trained in a weekend moaned endlessly if the child had an accident and were generally unsupportive not every child gets it instantly even in cloth nappies

When I worked in a playschool, children couldn't start (at age 3) unless they were in pants. Children certainly couldn't start mainstream school in nappies. My children, and the child I minded, were out of nappies at 21 months. No great scientific or psychological approach, just put them in pants and talk about how their tummy felt before they wee'd. They had got the hang of it in days, although of course there were accidents for a while. My great niece watched my granddaughter using the potty at the same age and instantly got it. One big problem now is that nappies are so good that children don't know they've urinated - they need to run around with a bare bum and experience wee running down their leg to realise. Warm weather is perfect, get the nappy off and let them experience the feeling of doing a wee.

This is a school local to me. It is a huge issue in this area. This school does have quite a few SEN children however most schools in the area have a big proportion of children who are not toilet trained. I am a childminder and we make sure that the children leaving our setting are fully toilet trained and independent. All the teachers who visit are very appreciative of the fact that this is something they do not have to do. This is a very deprived area so there is a great number of families who live below the poverty line who do not have the resources and skills to feel they can successfully toilet train so leave it to preschools, childcare providers or schools. More help is needed to get these parents the skills and confidence necessary to help their children achieve this.

@MissTRENDINGI am in Italy

I feel sorry for the teacher tbh

Is your ds in mainstream in that case?

Well they generally seem to make it to year six with no indication of SEN….

In fact one of last years Y6 leavers got a scholarship to a prestigious school due to her academic ability… she came to us in nappies and unable to even recognise her written name. It’s not all down to us as a school though… the other parent took over sole care and it was like she was a different child…..

Sorry but the job description of a TA will
likely include meeting hygiene needs as needed. Mostly it won’t be teachers changing them but support staff.

Perhaps it would incentivise the dc to not soil themselves in the first place.

I know it isn’t pleasant but they do need to be toilet trained unless SN

In France and Belgium, kids can start free, public pre-school at age 2.5 as long as they are potty trained. If it becomes apparent that the kid isn't potty trained within the first week or so of arriving, they will send them home and say 'come back when he's potty trained.' As a result, every kid (excluding SEN of course) is potty trained by age 2.5-3 because parents don't want to pay 900+ euros per month anymore for creche! They are really strict about it, which many anglophone parents find shocking.

I'm not sure that you're allowed to do that in the UK, Australia, or USA.

Women on minimum wage, most likely.

Once children are 5 years and older, surely they're able to take off their own pull up and put a new one on, unless they have a severe disability? Do parents provide these pull ups or do schools pay for them?

The problem is at 2/3 is quite tricky to tell if a child has SEND. My youngest has been really tricky to train, we have tried relentlessly, he does have SEND but still no diagnosis, although we are in the process. But the only reason for that is because I am pretty clued up on child development and SEND otherwise he could easily start school with no identified needs.

That wasn’t what I was responding to. Just the idea it wasn’t in their job description- I think you will find it often is.

Also one thing I thought of was when I started school it was the term (e.g Easter/Christmas not just summer) before you were 5- that’s giving some children another 7 months to pick up things like toilet training. That’s a lot of time in the life of a 4 year old.

I do get the impression that this is used as something of a stick to beat parents with.

Every child is different.

DD has autism and has sensory issues.

She is still in DryNites at night but potty trained during the day at the normal age of 2 because she likes routines, and we did regular sitting on the potty with a book as part of a routine.

She still takes a book into the loo with her every time, though! 😂

As I’ve said before, when I was in Infants at Primary School (nearly 40 years ago, before Pull-Ups were invented, I’m sure) there were a few children who wet themselves nearly every day and had to be sent home in their PE kit with a plastic bag with their wet clothes in.

Nowadays they would probably be the children who are sent in in nappies.

I’m sure there were more “special schools” around in those days too.

I’m not sure it’s all parental laziness.

I think it’s a combination of:

• Larger nappies and pull-ups being available and used by parents of children who would have simply wet themselves every day before;

• More inclusion of SEN kids in mainstream education;

• A small proportion of parents who don’t bother/ want to wait until the child is ready;

• More absorbent nappies that make it harder for a child to know when they are wet.

No easy answers, I’m sure, but I don’t think it’s any one factor.

It’s the curse of disposable nappies and lazy parenting basically.

For every genuine medical or SEN case there’s 9 badly parented children. Same ones that can’t sit at a table and use cutlery either.

Come to think of it, I remember teachers actually telling children off for having accidents sometimes. “You should have gone to the toilet earlier!” etc. That didn’t stop the accidents happening though…

He is. He wouldn't get into a special school because the education wouldn't be appropriate for him as he has no learning disabilities and is capable of accessing a mainstream education.

pp was referring to my son who is disabled and is bowel incontinent.