To ask you all the take a minute to look at the proposed Green Paper on work & welfare, particularly the cuts to PIP.

[MarvellousMonsters]

The Government has published a green paper which amongst other things proposes to change the PIP eligibility, which will ‘save £5b’ by removing financial
support from those who don’t score 4 points in a single criteria in the daily living component of PIP.

green paper in full

It’s estimated that it can cost up to £1000 a month in extra living expenses as a disabled person, and the daily living allowance of PIP is designed to help towards these costs. The lowest rate is £72.65 a week, (£290.60 a month) and this is a literal life line to those who have a limited capability for work, are ‘not disabled enough’ to qualify for full support, but do need help. It allows people to pay for things like cleaners and domestic help, to buy ready prepped veg etc to allow them to eat proper healthy food, to heat their home if they have poor body temp control, and so on. The proposed changes will push these people into acute poverty, and also reduce their quality of life, not just financially, but because being in receipt of PIP makes people eligible for other types of practical support.

You may feel this isn’t something that affects you, but disability can happen to anyone, as those previous fit healthy people who are now incapacitated by Long Covid can confirm. You could be in a car accident, or become sick, it could literally happen to anyone, so this truly does concern everyone, even if you are currently able-bodied and well.

Please, if you do nothing else, please fill in the consultation form and lobby the DWP not to introduce the ‘4 point rule’. If you only do that you’ll help thousands of people who are currently at risk of losing vital support.

consultation form

TLDR: please tell Liz Kendall not to remove vital welfare support from disabled people.

How many people are earning that much and claiming PIP?

@Willyoujustbequiet I think there's a bit of a competition for 'the most vulnerable in society'

It seems to be about half of society at the moment.

And yes, I have personally dealt with many people whose actions have made their physical and mental health worse.

100% this.

Families won't cope and will no longer provide care. The Government will have to provide fulltime residential support and this will cost far more.

It's so shortsighted as to be ludicrous.

Where has this idea come from that people on high levels of benefits are looking down on those who just receive UC?

Firstly, I'll swap with them. In a heartbeat. Full 100% situation swap, I'll do it, because I would love to not have to be in a position where I get full PIP and LCWRA.

Secondly, it isn't a deserving poor vs undeserving poor thing - no one should be living in poverty, but I'm going to advocate for disabled people because it's fucking miserable being disabled and unemployed because it's a double layer of vulnerability and suddenly there seems to be an attempt to make out that people who get high PIP and LCWRA are privileged in some way, forgetting the fact that we're disabled. As in, a health care professional has agreed that we're too disabled to work.

Well I have a rare congenital condition that effects multiple organs. I have had 2 brain bleeds, I have bpd and bipolar. I work part time as that is all I can work. I use all my holidays on hospital appointments. I spend an absolute fortune on travel back and forth to hospitals as none of my local hospitals can treat me as its rare and I can't drive. So what can I do to fix this as my neurologist, cardiologist, vascular surgeon heamotologist and geneticist is stumped. I am on pip but it was a battle I was denied first time as its hard to fit into the specific categories and they payed no attention to any of my consultants or my gp or cpn or care coordinator. So as you can imagine I get annoyed when people make out just anyone can get pip its really not that easy and now it's just going to get harder

Who knows? But there was someone on radio 4 when this kicked off a couple of months ago who was exactly in that position. I hadn't realised before this that it wasn't means tested.

@feelingbleh You are one person and know your own situation.

You can speak for yourself but not for others and their situation, actions or motivations.

I have never seen anyone on high levels of benefit look down on people on less either.

Utter nonsense. There are approximately 3.6 million PIP claimants out of nearly 70 million. I'm no maths wizard but it's laughable to suggest half of society is therefore claiming to be the most vulnerable.

The hyperbole simply makes you look foolish.

Everyone can only speak for themselves you will never understand what's truly going on in another person's life. Do you think im the only person who's going to end up homeless and dead from this their will be many people my situation isn't unique

It made no sense to me that they are NOT linked. People with mobility issues who get PIP didn't qualify for the UC health element but people who aren't on PIP did. How does that make any sense?

I would guess it is the exception and not the norm. I read on here that only 19% of PIP claimants are in work anyway.
I still stand by previous statement that if it were to be means tested it should be the individual only and not their household.

PIP claimants are not the only people claiming to be the 'most vulnerable'

Pensioners = most vulnerable
Asylum seekers = most vulnerable
Victims of crime and domestic abuse = most vulnerable
Care leavers = most vulnerable
Young children = most vulnerable

I also think a lot of people will continue to receive it. There's over 1000 new pip claims awarded every day, 30000 a month, nearly 400,000 a year. It's not sustainable.

You can be too unwell to work and not meet the criteria for PIP, and you can meet the criteria for PIP and be able to work.

So maybe they need to sort the nhs out then and their would be less disabled people rather then killing off disabled people which is what the government is trying to do

They aren't mutually exclusive.

Why would you presume any of these groups aren't disabled too?

The most vulnerable are those who are unable to survive by themselves - the severely disabled.

So you think it's OK that a family may have a six figure income, but it's disregarded so an individual can claim extra money? Why? Especially if a couple is married. The family income should be used to fund the extra care needed. For example the able bodied in the family should do the cleaning not pay for a cleaner, likewise gardening.

You can also be disabled and not claim PIP. I am one of those who would get it but am scared by the process. I am far from alone in that.

On MN women are told to never be reliant on a man financially. Yet a vulnerable and disabled woman has to be?

The people who fight against pip you do realise one day you or your child might need it things can happen in a second that can change your life forever

Yes absolutely.

Sadly often the most vulnerable are those least able to engage with the process/paperwork.

These are pretty minor changes. We need much greater welfare reform than this tinkering.

They genuinely don't. They think even if they become disabled, they'll be one of those good disabled people who keeps working - because it's all about mental strength and dignity and mindset, that's the only thing separating the working and non-working disabled, obviously 🙄

Minor?

Simple example - a couple is on UC because the wife is disabled. Her husband is her carer and can't work because he is looking after her. She is on PIP and LCWRA and he gets the carers rate on UC. Look up how much that is. Is it fuck all.
Wife is on enhanced rate of PIP but doesn't have any element scoring 4.

Under new rules, she will lose PIP because she does not score any 4. Because she loses PIP, her husband will no longer be classed as her carer and he will have to go out and find a job. She could be left at home unwashed and unfed. she might have to go into some sort of residential care or have carers in. Both at huge cost in public funds. Carers save us all so much.

Because the gov want to link PIP and LCWRA (but renamed) then the wife will also be made to go out and get a job too. She has not worked for 20 years. Who is going to take her on? She goes to the job centre and fails to find work, gets sanctioned.