Going to an RG university means absolutely nothing and school is mostly a prison for childhood.

[chaosmaker]

Inspired by another thread and thread title suggestion. Isn't school for the majority, somewhere to stick kids in the day as they aren't adequately supported in a lot of cases, bullying isn't tackled and nobody cares where your degree came from. Just if you can do your job!

Surely (in most cases) a persons ability to do their job is predicated on having some basic skill we acquire in eduction?

And how do you suppose people will learn to "just do their job" without school?

So home school 🤷‍♀️

School is for socialisation and only people that haven’t been to a good university miss the point of them.

It depends on what sort of a job you are looking for, some employers just look at the grade it's a first, great, others do look at which university and if they see a good grade at an RG university it is considered better. And you have to get the job to be judged on how well you do it.

Children need to learn at least to read and write and be able to do arithmetic, you don't have to send them to school you can home school, but not everyone can do that. School at least provides the minimum education for most children, could it be better? No doubt. Employ more teachers, pay them more, give them the resources to cope with all abilities of children, give them more respect and that would be a start.

School is antiquated and shit - from early years when they stop them being physically active and learning through play - through secondary where they sit down all day and have outdated 'knowledge'. poured into them and get detentions for not focusing in endless boring sedentary lessons

I could weep at how awful the system is but I just think people go along with thinking its normal.

I have found it painful watching my kids go through it

ON the most basic level - children (and adults!) are meant to be physically active most of the day and asking children to sit down and 'focus and learn' from 5 onwards goes against everything we know about the human mind and body.

If you want to know what 'works' you can look at private schools who have much more physical movement - smaller classes and more creative stuff. Or countries with highly succesful outcomes who do no formal learning of reading/ writing until 7 or 8.

2 totally different threads.

I agree an RG university is unnecessary for the majority of undergraduate students and may not be the best option. It’s a self selecting lobbying body with a focus on representing research interests.

I don’t agree that school is a prison.

Well I don't think our education system is very good, there are countries that do it much better-Finland, for example- but I wouldn't call it a prison. There are lots of things kids learn at school that aren't related to the curriculum, like social skills, team work, etc.
I get annoyed at the huge misconception surrounding RG unis, since being RG has very little to do with the quality of undergraduate teaching, and everything to do with the size of the uni, research and very good self-promotion. Neither St Andrews nor Bath are RG, yet nobody would say they are not very good universities.
These days a lot of graduate recruitment is done blind, meaning recruiters aren't looking at what uni a candidate went to, but whether they got a 1st, 2:1, 2:2 etc. I'm pleased things are going this way, and I say that as a parent of an Oxford student.

Agree. University is not only for learning maths, English, history, etc. It exposes you to so much more and opens so many doors.

We don't have a fancy school or anything but my kids enjoy being there and look forward to going in. They are excited to show me the artwork they have done and tell me about the things they are learning- my son seems really into the history lessons. They have had no bullying/ have made lots of friends in addition to those from outside school and its helped them grow in independence. I am sorry you've had such a bad experience?

I am able to do a lot of education stuff with my kids at home but I'm not perfect and appreciate them being educated in different ways and views.

RG university is a way to help open those initial doors to a career for many but I managed to make it without, just five years or so behind other peers. I think its a useful tool.

Education is something we should all be striving for, and its not just about jobs in the future but being able to understand the world around us.

I was reading something this week that said the average US prisoner gets more time outside than the average US school child. Same in the UK too apparently 😔 so I guess in that regard there is definitely a similarity.

Oxford and Cambridge have always counted (at least part of that was old boys network, in the same way private schooling was).

In the days when a distinction was made between universities and polytechnics, there was definitely a snob perspective. Polys had less stringent admission requirements.

Since all the polys became universities, the distinction isn't there, but what we have to bear in mind is that far more young people have degrees now. It's not a fair way of doing it, but it is a method of selection when faced with a bunch of candidates with the same qualifications on paper.

It's like GCSEs. Pretty much after I left school and had got my first job, subsequent employers weren't so interested in my exam results. They'd ask for the number of subjects I had, but I was rarely asked to prove it. After I went back and got my degree, that really was the end of any interest in my GCSEs.

Now, though, with so many kids coming through with degrees, employers are looking further back to help with selection. Whether it is or is not really an indicator of ability in the job market, it isn't the distinction it once was. When I did my degree in the 90s, only 19% of a cohort went to uni. And that was a lot in comparison with the previous decade. Now, over 50% of a cohort will go to uni, which means the little distinctions matter more, especially in competitive fields.

Once you have been working for a while, it will matter less, because prospective employers have something else to go on.

When we leave full time education, all prospective employers have to go on is our exam results. It's a buyers market at the moment so results matter now more than ever, and where you got them from, in a sea of peers with the same qualifications, where you got them is, sadly, going to be a factor.

School is to educate children, both academically and socially. I have young adult children who have been through school and university. I don’t know what you are talking about

I didn't even know I went to an RG uni until I heard the term on Mumsnet in my 40s.

How are kids meant to have an education and learn to socialise without schools? I know I don’t have the skills and training to do the job of a teacher….or the patience either lol. For the most part, I enjoyed school and have good memories from my schooldays. It also teaches things like conflict resolution etc and prepares kids for adult life.
also who can afford to not work in order to home school?! Or want to? I would rather be able to keep my career.

I suppose partly it's because I read private eye and watch politics programmes and the people in power don't seem to be those that should be in charge. Doesn't seem to be a lot of intelligent decision making, ability to budget, over reliance on tech that they don't look further than the companies lobbying them want them to.

Critical thinking doesn't seem to be taught. University is expected now whereas someone that has gone straight into work may have a far better career than someone expecting a higher salary straight away because of uni. Granted there are certain careers that do need specialised knowledge only found in the required degrees for that profession but it's silly now where there are too many overqualified to do nothing in particular.

As with a lot of things currently, I blame blair.

How do you plan to change it OP?

Isn't funny how there has been a huge upswing in the number of anti-intellectualism threads there have been recently?

My kids are at (RG!) universities and have real nostalgia for their schooldays already ;-) One has a grad job lined up. They genuinely loved school, had teachers who were largely good, and a few amazing ones. They made friends for life there.

They miss the relative simplicity of school life and obviously find university work harder. But they certainly did not see school as a prison and they felt supported and encouraged, and they got the qualifications they needed. They did not like the uncreative nature of some of the exam prep, but accepted it as a necessary ‘evil’.

I guess they were both academic and socially able so school was not as great a challenge for them as it may well be for others.

Oh OP

In countries where there is little access to education, they are all desperate to go to school. Make it universally available and people like you start saying it’s unnecessary.

That is beyond sad, if true, but there are countless schools where it's completely not the case and education is liberating and enriching. That said, education and job training are (or should be, IMO) not synonymous and an increasing tendency to think that they are is not helping anyone.

There are many many studies showing how better educational outcomes improves your own life and helps the economy. But no let's shit on education because "I wasn't good at school"

Eh? What are you watching that thinks school is "a prison for childhood" (that is very clearly not Private Eye's stance on education!)

Re PE - It's more about the old boy network that means the education is immaterial to the people you meet that can advance you. (See oxbridge politicians that have no skillset but do have power to wreck our lives throught their policies)

It's not education I object to but the system of it. I was top band all the way despite being uninterested and never studying. They didn't offer the only subject I wanted to do which also didn't help.

Parents in poorer areas (mine) don't seem to value education or support the school (when it is the right over behaviour or other issues (without SEND)) and instead devalues it.

School should be more about critical thinking and life skills or for those kids that know what they want to do, should have subjects that suit those professions. Pay should be a lot more for teachers as they are now supposed to fill so many roles that parenting or society did.

The older I get the more I agree with this. Most people I know who did a non vocational degree don't use any aspect of what they learn now. It's a social construct, there are lots of other ways to bridge the gap from childhood to adulthood.

Same with school. Hours per work and lots of headspace dedicated to things that just don't matter (how many stripes are showing on your tie, are your shoes made of polish able material).

I did very well at school, have a RG uni degree and a masters qualification.

I completely agree OP. My children have picked routes that will likely lead to self employment and self sufficiency and I am bloody glad.