Going to an RG university means absolutely nothing and school is mostly a prison for childhood.

[chaosmaker]

Inspired by another thread and thread title suggestion. Isn't school for the majority, somewhere to stick kids in the day as they aren't adequately supported in a lot of cases, bullying isn't tackled and nobody cares where your degree came from. Just if you can do your job!

There is lip service paid to what used to be technical college and more practical based courses but little to no funding put into them. We are crying out for tradespeople and no end of jobs.

I'm also sick of how AI will make productivity higher - ie replace people even though the government wants everyone working and paying into the system!

While I know what you mean, op and would love formal education to be more active and creative, some schools do try to achieve this balance. My DD's secondary school for example does one hour or extra curricular activities every day after formal lessons that every child does. they can choose from sport, art, drama, music, photography, board games, reading and biscuits....it's great and they do about four hours of sport each week too so some schools are trying very hard up with their provision. It's a state school too.

I don't agree with your original point but I do agree with your subsequent posts. We need more money and resources to be put into further and technical education. Not every young person goes to University, even now. Forcing those who are interested in social sciences or the arts into plumbing courses just because they are not STEM is the same as forcing non academic kids to go to Uni to do a pointless degree from a terrible uni. We need to value technical education and further education as an option for post 16's but that means that organisations and employers need to step up instead of moaning about skills. They need to take on apprentices and take time out to teach them, people need to want to pass theses skills on by teaching in fe colleges. FE has been undervalued and underfunded for decades.

The problem with teaching "critical thinking" is that it usually translates into "teaching kids to think the way you want them to".
Critical thinking is something parents should teach, I don't want the state to teach my kids how to think thanks! Parents need to step up and start parenting life skills, schools should never be substitutes for parents. Schools are there for teaching kids to read + write etc, it is parental responsibility to do everything else.

Fundamental issue is lack of choice in state funded education, parents should be able to choose the school that best suits their child so we need a much broader range of settings: grammars, vocational schools, sports/arts based schools etc. Trying to force square pegs into rounds holes with 1 size fits all education system fails more kids than it supports.

Labour also now looking to reduce EHCPs so this is only going to make current situation in schools even worse:

https://x.com/SpcialNdsJungle/status/1923032995889369533?t=MnMB9G_OceUSCk0_hCrisA&s=19

I do think that doing a humanities degree at a polytechnic / white tile University and getting a 2:2 or under (like me) is pointless. In hindsight stopping at A Levels would have been enough.

School as a prison? A place of severe unhappiness for many children, yes.

I did my degree in the 80s when it was free and it was just a way for people to leave home really.

Yes this is very noticeable at the moment.

School as a prison is a lazy simile usually said by those who hated it themselves
No one has to send their children to school so there's that.
Since when has anti education become a thing? Not happy with the system. Change it.

The privilege of complaining about a free education
Get a grip.

By "anti-intellectualism" you mean people who don't share the same view as you?

The state education system is broken, SEN in state is in crisis, number of school refusers is at a record high. These are exactly the conversations we should be having and we should be forcing politicians to have. That's the complete opposite of "anti-intellectualism".

It is children who are bearing the brunt of this broken system and they will then turn into adults who are anti-education and the cycle perpetuates!

The very worst thing to happen was Blair's target of 50% of kids going to university. That gave every government the opportunity to de-fund technical + vocational pathways + options.

You're absolutely undermining your own point. It's because of the universities that lot went to thst they have their power!:

There seems to me to be a mish mash of complaints here. I would tend to agree that private schools end up with young people with a better depth and breadth of education, but on the antiquated knowledge accusation I’m not sure what you mean. What knowledge/subject areas do you want to ditch, and what will you replace it with?

It is noticeable there's an uptick in the basic point that 'too many people go to uni' and a desire to return the country to a place where tertiary education is only for a small group.

Personally I want the UK population to be as well educated as comparator nations, we need a high skill population.

Should education be reformed and significantly improved? Yes. Should there be greater investment? Yes. Should vocational/technical education be improved? Yes.
Should we reduce the level/time input our young people get? No, that would put our nation at a disadvantage globally.

As ever, there's a group that want to go back to the past. The politicians that advocate cutting education don't mean for their kids, but be aware those politicians are happy to outsource and offshore the good jobs.

School is a relatively short day f prisoners and the workforce ,would jump at a chance of 9 to 3 and holidays off.(no disrespect to teaches) if no one went to School we would be running around uneducated! .my Son did well at school, enjoyed it and went to RG uni.Our local uni Non RG, did not do his course. Many RG universities have more Stem subjects.

Too many kids are going to uni though. The issue is that other pathways are deemed to be lower status as you yourself have just exemplified. You said you want a well educated workforce but only equate that to university education. Why can't someone on a vocational pathway be "well educated". You pov perfectly sums up the smug and arrogant elitist view of only university being able to provide the highest level of education.
That's why vocational and technical pathways have been chronically underfunded and de-valued.

I'm always shocked by anti school and anti University threads on here. Ive worked in regular state secondary schools since 1992. On the whole they are happy places. A lot of good humour and a lot of teenagers and adults getting on and trying to do their best.
We don't set the expectations nor did we create the exam system we just have to make the best of it.
As for making the teenagers sit still, we have short days in school with frequent breaks. And when we used to have so called brain breaks and we made the kids get up and walk outside for a few minutes, we had to stop doing it as so many conflicts occurred as the kids didn't want to. They said it disturbed their concentration.
Prisons have locked doors classroom doors in my school are open.
Critical thinking is all we try to teach constantly. Many children struggle as their reading and comprehension skills are weak as they have never been encouraged at home or in their wider society to read. This makes it very hard for them as their vocabulary and therefore their higher order thinking skills are capped.
But to be fair I grew up inside the zone of influence of Cambridge and I have respect for learning baked into me!

So only kids who go to uni have a "respect for learning"? That is extremely worrying that you are a teacher! That sums up the elitist attitude of only uni = well educated!
I have worked in tertiary + wbl for over 20 years and trust me, there are many kids there who respect learning but 1 size fits all school system has failed them. You are a perfect example of why.

We need more choice at secondary level onwards and we need to raise value of technical and vocational pathways but with attitudes like yours sadly I feel it will never happen.

Has there? I’ve always found that there’s a strong strand of suspicion of intellect in the British psyche.

Honestly, the snobbery and elitism on this post is shocking! Saying that only university = well educated.

Why do you think that so many graduates are struggling to find jobs now? If they are so well educated they shouldn't be having any problem right?

School for me was my sanctuary and education was my escape from the poverty cycle I was born into, I view it as somewhat of a privilege to view it as a prison and not see the value of it. I do agree about university, but I'd say in the past decade or so there's been a step change back to viewing the value of apprentiships and vocational qualifications at college; it doesn't mean uni is pointless though, plenty of careers require that level of education and some people really enjoy learning more. The point of all education isn't to definitively teach you everything you need to know, but to teach you how to access and analyse information or how to work stuff out. Personally I think the backgrounds of the people you mention are more of a factor than the universities they went to.

There really hasn't been a "step change" as demonstrated clearly by some posters on here. There has been some tinkering around the edges but nothing of substance to raise profile.
WBL + tertiary sector is hugely underfunded and until we have funding parity then we will never value it sufficiently.

I agree. People still don't see 'the trades' as skilled jobs, just because some non-academic people are very good at them. I'd be rubbish at plumbing! Being non-academic or non-STEM doesn't automatically equal 'good at trades'.

What we've lost in this country is employment for the average masses. I've always thought Blair's drive to get kids in uni was about massaging unemployment figures, because there aren't so many of the old 'out of school, on to the factory floor' jobs.

We’ve been doing a big house renovation for several years , and I think literally every electrician, plumber, plasterer etc who’s passed through has mentioned the difficulty in getting young people to train up and apprentice with them.

I don't personally equate it to university only, but the politicians who say 'too many go to uni' do. I'm not smug and elitist, that's a projection from you onto someone you know nothing about. When you resort to groundless, generic insults it reflects badly on you.

I said:
Should education be reformed and significantly improved? Yes. Should there be greater investment? Yes. Should vocational/technical education be improved? Yes.
Should we reduce the level/time input our young people get? No, that would put our nation at a disadvantage globally.

None of that means university only, time/level would cover uni and non-uni routes to high levels.