AIBU to think going to an RG university means absolutely nothing

[Butchyrestingface]

Never one to shy away from a challenge (even if it's a challenge to someone else).

So I went to a RG uni. I didn't even KNOW I'd been to a RG uni until about 15 years after the fact when I joined MN.

Thereafter I referred to it as having gone to a 'Russell Grant' university (bit confused).

AIBU in thinking RG unis are not the be all and end all?

Universities apply to be in the RG. Bath and St Andrews feel they are just fine as they are. QMUL and Exeter were the most recent entrants I think.

There is a difference in grad earnings from RG when compared to others. Certainly for Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial grads. There’s more blurred outcomes at the “lower end” of RG.

Obviously type of work and degree studied matter too but comparable degrees can have better earnings from RG - eg in Economics and law. The IFS did a big study in degree outcomes a few years ago. RG still leads to higher earnings overall, mainly because of its elite top end. Obviously drive, determination, personality and work also matter to employers.

If people didn’t know they were at RG they obviously didn’t go in this era. In 1970 around 9% of school leavers went to university and now it’s 37%. It’s grown by 70% in the last 30 years. Cost hasn’t put anyone off it seems. The Post 92 group of universities is also a self appointed group and most students end up with them.

St Andrews
Bath
Lancaster
Loughborough (or are they RG now?)

All highly regarded unis.

Others are highly regarded for specific courses or within specific professions.

RG has unfortunately just become a misused shorthand for highly regarded.

@Timpot No they won’t because many recruit university blind. It will be all the things I listed in my earlier post. Best advice - get a first and work in his vacations. Or get an internship. Put together a great cv and Lancaster is obviously as good as most for maths, obviously not elite but better than many RG because RG isn’t best at everything!

@Spirallingdownwards RG plus a few does mean research led. The IFS says higher salaries too, overall. So it’s not shorthand. It is largely a mark of quality but not for everything. Students need to do research on where is best, as in the Maths example.

Yes I realise that but I think more generally parents don't realise that they get their RG status based on being research led and in their minds they see it as "highly regarded/superior status" hence my referring to it as a kind of shorthand for highly regarded.

@LavenderBlue19 What red brick university is not now RG? They were Bristol, Birmingham, Leeds, Liveroool, Manchester and Sheffield. Red brick and RG.

Nottingham for example. Friend left his master after some weeks as it was so grim. Told by a librarian "we have some journals, mostly the cheaper ones" 😟

Not everyone agrees with you that RG will 'always' be viewed as superior.
As a parent of a child at a more than decent private school, they do not publish where their teachers trained.
RG status is far less important than the young person choosing the right university for them, and that may well not be an RG university.

www.theguardian.com/education/2023/sep/10/is-the-russell-group-still-relevant?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Leicester (University of, not De Montfort which is ex-poly). I actually chose Leicester over Liverpool because I preferred the halls and campus.

ETA - I just had a Google, they were apparently invited to join but declined. Not sure I'd send a DC there now as they were one of the first to start mass redundancies and obviously have major money problems, but in the late 90s/early 2000s they were definitely considered a good uni. We had a lot of overseas students and many of the friends I made there were from the US, so I wonder if that income has reduced.

They're the best universities in the world. Fantastic teaching. Wonderful resources.

I think what you're reacting to is the ideological attacks they're under from the current US administration, which is doing what every authoritarian government has ever done - namely attack academia and encourage anti-intellectualism.

@LavenderBlue19 Ha! That’s disputed by some. We could add Hull, Nottingham and Cardiff but they aren’t the original 6. Not that it matters.

Many have money issues due to lack of international students. Leicester always feels a bit parochial to me now and none of DDs friends considered it. It’s 36 on CUG and only QMUL from RG is below it. However like everywhere else, it will have some great courses.

I think times are changing regarding university choices made by students with previous popular ones losing status (some plate glass ones) and others really becoming very popular. It’s partly fashion I think because quality in the top 20 (excluding a few elite ones) won’t be discernible to employers. What a student brings to a job is what matters and university is just part of that equation.

American universities tend to feature on top university lists - in part because there are so many of them. Other countries around the world are equally strong in teaching, research and resources.

Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. DD is at a RG university and currently doing a placement year with one of the Big Four. She's already been accepted onto their graduate program too.

All the other placements are from RG universities, as are all the new graduates she's met too. I doubt this is a coincidence?

I’m no specialist in maths but as you are basing this on league tables.
Looking at the World Rankings because

• With a subject like maths employers are likely to be Global employers
• World rankings aren’t skewed by biased student views ( look at what happened to rankings during the pandemic for example )

You will see for 2025 for Maths &Stats ( the results are combined )
Lancaster is at no. 168
Liverpool is at no. 160

So if I was comparing the two Liverpool is higher on the Leagues and an RG

Two of my son's flatmates in a top 10 non RG university got graduate scheme placements in top 4 accountancy firms, and he got a placement in one of the country's largest financial services firms, several of his graduate colleagues also came from non RG unis such as Bath and Lancaster which are both very highly ranked for Maths.

Actually, they've shot themselves in the foot by allowing pro Palestinian protestors to take over campuses, vandalize buildings, disrupt academic activities and block Jewish students from attending classes. Ordinary students who just want to pursue their studies have rights too.

What Americans think about recent pro-Palestinian campus protests

Employers do have an idea of which universities are better than others in terms of the quality of student and education and it will be an advantage for students especially on traditional courses

not a guarantee , but an advantage

Sorry, yes my DD is currently working alongside graduates from Bath. I should have specified that it might not be coincidence that there's no one from a post-1992 university.

What are these "world rankings" based on? Given the tab that says 'how to get your uni ranked' forgive my skepticism. It appears to be research based but as an undergrad, it's teaching that matters more.

I kind of think student views are somewhat important.

The times higher rankings do appear biased , just differently so.

It's always interesting when people discuss the merits of RG v Non RG as the examples of 'just as good' unis they give are always St Andrews, Bath, Lancaster etc. It's never London Met, Beds or Wolverhampton. Just my observation, whether it's MN or WIWIKAU.

Yep and job prospects after.

St Andrews, Bath, Lancaster, Loughborough…

Well yes, because they are arguing that some unis are just as good. Not that all unis are equal.

And nice versa- examples of Russel group are never Glasgow, Belfast, Queen Mary, Liverpool etc