9 year old hurting himself.

[Heartbeats18]

I don't know where to start other than say my 9 year old son has harmed himself and threatened to hurt himself with scissors. The first time was at home, he cut his finger with a pair of scissors and gave himself a small paper cut type wound. We have managed to deal with this behaviour at home but he recently threatened to stab himself in the stomach with scissors whilst at school, he took the scissors and made an attempt. He then punched himself in the face and attempted to strangle himself in the school toilet. This happened on a friday afternoon, and the senco teacher rang twice but i missed the call , I rang back and the receptionist said she had left early so to ring back Monday. My son then went to an external afterschool club where he told a member of staff what had happened, that staff member told me when I picked him up at 6pm. I was heartbroken I wasn't there for him when he was feeling this way. We got through the weekend but I didn't send him to school Monday and rang CAMHS who saw him, he opened up and said he wanted to end his life but he said these feelings usually happen when he his frustrated and angry. He said its mainly school that makes him feel angry, he said he isn't able to finish his work as the teacher takes it off him and then he has to stay in at breaktimes to finish it. He said he finds the classroom distracting and noisy, he did have his own table which meant he got distracted less but this got took off him and he isn't allowed sensory breaks anymore or his fidget ( we think he does well for a week having the breaks etc but then when the teacher sees tht he is doing well, then it gets took off him again because the teacher then feels he doesn't need the breaks or fidget toys)
He has recently been diagnosed as ASD ( I know the term isn't used anymore but it would be more aspergers or high functioning ASD if i had to describe it) he's very clever and is in the top groups, he says he can do the work but sometimes says he is struggling and when he asks for help he doesn't get it and them when he gets something wrong he really struggles with that.

I guess I'm asking what should I be asking for to best support him at school, me and dad feel so lost. It feel like they aren't taking his needs seriously. It was so upsetting to hear him say he doesn't want to live, he wants to be off this earth. He said he hates school, he hate all the rules. He said he wants to destroy school. He hates how he is spoken to at school. These behaviours are the worst in a long list of behaviours that we have normally been able to manage at home.

Has anyone been through something similar? We are totally lost and i feel like we are failing him, we worry he will really hurt himself or worse. He seems to understand what death means but he doesn't seem bothered.

Does he have an EHCP? This would be my first port of call, you can request one yourself and it is a huge help in pushing for additional support/ accommodations. Children with special educational needs and disabilities (SEND): Extra help - GOV.UK. I'd apply for this ASAP (if you haven't already) as sometimes they can take a little while to come through. I'd also be looking at getting weekly counselling sessions for him, even if it's just an outlet where he feels he can totally open up as he did with CAHMS. It might also be worth applying for DSA, it can be hard to get so no way to say for sure you'd get awarded it, but it could help towards the cost of any counselling Disability Living Allowance (DLA) for children: Overview - GOV.UK.

In terms of what support to ask for, it needs to be made clear to the teacher that the fidget toy is to stay with him if that is what is helping to regulate him in class, as well as being allowed sensory breaks and his own table back again.

Whereabouts are you based? Would an independent school financially be an option? It might mean he got more 1-1 support which could benefit his frustration.

Take him up to A&E.

They'll do a mental health check and a referral to other services.

Good advice from xmasdealhunter.

Pete Wharmby's Untypical may be useful here if you haven't read it already. I'd also recomend Ross Greene's Plan B approach.

And - write to school saying what you have said and that it's a safeguarding fail to have taken away the reasonable adjustments he needs.

Honestly, at 9, I’d try to get right on top of this with medication . My daughter started the same at 9 and went undiagnosed until 13, when she was highly suicidal and doing very dangerous things.

If he has a diagnosis I’d be asking about medication. You wouldn’t expect an adult struggling so significantly with normal daily life to get by with a fidget toy.

Firstly thank you all so much for your replies. He doesn't have an ehcp so I will ask about this at the school as we are going to have a meeting tomorrow. I rang camhs crisis line and they saw him the same day which was yesterday, he has a follow up appointment on Sunday. We just think school are being very relaxed about it all. We think because he presents as high functioning that they aren't bothered and just see him as some troublesome rude child when he is in fact crying out for help. He tells other children to shut up and when we spoke about it, he said but they are loud and they distract me and are noisy. This is just one small thing but he is then being told he is naughty and is sent out of class. We just think things are being overlooked. We just don't know how to get him this help, ideally I would want him to try other therapies before being medicated.

I sort of understand that, but I sort of don’t. If you were suicidal you’d not hesitate before taking medication. But we put our kids through years of not-very-helpful or impactful or consistent groups and therapies and I honestly think it’s kinda wrong.

My daughter would be dead now without medication, that’s all I know. Trust me when I say you don’t want to have to live with how close you came to tragedy.

Three years later and my husband and I are both still struggling mentally. But my daughter has been on medication for about a year and is doing brilliantly.

Just be aware that the school may say that he doesn't need an ECHP (I haven't had this experience but have seen other users on here having it said to them), especially if they don't see him having a problem. You can push back on this or apply yourselves, but absolutely do apply for one regardless, it is invaluable now but also through secondary school. You are also able to stipulate on the form if you have interest in specialist schools. I don't know where you're based, but there might be a school like What we do - 3Dimensions near you, which follows the mainstream curriculum but has specialist mental health and ASD support (And so have a level of understanding that mainstream teachers just don't). You can stipulate that you have interest in a specific school on the application form and they can consider whether they have the funding and the place for him.

It sounds like the school have been making good provisions, I’d be demanding to know why they’re taking them away, when it works, they aren’t going to fix him, they help him to cope in a pressured environment, removing them is stupid it’s not something he has a lot of control over. Kick up a stink about the teacher taking this stuff away. Also EHCP as pp have said.

A couple of things that might help a little at school - ear plugs/ear defenders to block out the noise from other kids and being sat right in front of the teacher so noise and distraction is all behind him rather than between him and the person he is trying to listen to (ds was diagnosed with Aspergers and can't filter out distractions).

Does he struggle with the lack of structure at lunch and break times? If at all possible DS found it really helpful to come home for lunch, it allowed him to decompress before the afternoon. Alternatively if there is somewhere that he can just go to chill out that might be really helpful, it's often easier at secondary than primary school though.

School need to understand that he is behaving badly because he isn't coping and that they need to be consistent with fidget toys and breaks. Taking them away because he's coping better with them makes no sense. You could try giving him a piece of blu tack to keep in his pocket and fiddle with, that often works quite well. Also find out why his desk to work alone at was taken away from him.

The other thing that may be possible is for him to be able to go to a quiet space or just 'somewhere else' if he is feeling overwhelmed in class. Again this is often easier in Secondary school than primary.

Finally I would also suggest that he might have rejection sensitive dysphoria. It's not unusual with ASD/ADHD and might explain why he really struggles with feeling he doesn't always get the help he needs and his struggle with getting things 'wrong'.

Good luck OP. there's a lot that can be done and may help but it needs to be consistent! Taking away the things that help him is downright stupid. I hope the school can see sense.

There is a fantastic support group on Facebook called Parenting Mental Health, you will find amazing advice on there.

Thank you, you have all been so helpful, it really has lightened the load.

I have a few things I can ask for tomorrow and hopefully school will listen.
I am going to ask for a ehcp, I am going to ask for a sensory assessment. I am going to ask why provision are being took off him, also why more effort wasn't made to contact myself, dad, and why I was contacted via my work number. Failing that why wasn't the message passed on another member of staff seeing that the staff member who dealt with the incident had to leave for an appointment. Thankfully he didnt hurt himself at afterschool club but he could have continued to hurt himself or even another child and no one was informed.

Is there anything else I should ask for?

For those that have said about applying for DLA, I haven't applied for DLA as I don't think I have the energy to go through the whole rigmarole of applying for it right now. I have heard it can be a battle to get it and I wouldn't know where to even start with applying.

My DS went through the exact same thing at 9 - year 4 is a big year academically and for social development. He had an eating disorder as well as self harm and talk of ending his life. Our school response was also similar and all around him needing to change, build resilience, anger management - absolutely no changes were put in place at school. We didn’t fight enough early enough and listened to the professionals who said school was the best place - even if this was sitting in the corridor all day alone. We lived walking on eggshells for over a year as he was so dysregulated. He eventually ended up with autistic burn out in year 6 ( he was diagnosed autistic eventually in year 5) and those months at home and low demand parenting before secondary transformed him. He’s now the most chilled, happy kid - it was unmet needs, not him that was the issue. He has an ehcp and proper support at school now - hall pass, risk assessment, TA, sensory breaks, access to the learning support centre when he needs breaks
Really feel for you, it’s horrendous
I’d recommend following Dr Naomi Fisher and spectrum gaming for advice and support

Ive just been looking at the loop kids earplugs for my DS who struggles with classroom noise, they sound like they could help a little

Honestly, I would take him out of school and homeschool (sign him up with an online school). If school is making your 9-year-old feel suicidal I would take him out. It's just not worth it

Great advice here

in parallel id look into medication , I wouldn’t mess with SH.

If you have money to spare it might be an idea to pay for a private educational psychologist report. You would get one - albeit less detailed - through the EHCP, but that takes time. And a good one will highlight needs that school aren't picking up because he's well behaved.

How did the meeting go, OP? @Heartbeats18

Hii thank you for your concern, it went well, they agreed to the things we asked for and are going to implement these going forward. I asked for the ehcp and they said he may not get it but I said I'm prepared to fight this. They are going to have a speak with his class teacher to ensure he has access to sensory time, his fidget etc. They where very much onboard with what me and dad asked for and they appear to now recognise just how much he is struggling.
We mentioned how we weren't happy that we hadn't been contacted about something as serious as this. The teacher said we did ring two times and I said when I rang back, the message should have been passed on to another member of staff who could have informed me. I said luckily he was fine at after school club but he should never have went in such a heightened state. I asked can they ring my work number or dads number as if he is feeling suicidal and harming himself then we need to know so we can support him. We didn't complain as we understand the stress the teachers must be under as well.

My heart is breaking for him but he seems okay. He has been off school for two day and hes completed a half day today. Things seem a little better and he played football this evening. He will do a full day tomorrow at school whilst I'm at work but i wont lie i'm really worried that if he becomes upset or angry that he will resort to hurting himself so I don't really know how to manage this going forward (it may well be that i have to leave my job which I know seems like the obvious solution but financially we would really struggle)

Oh i also mentioned to the teacher even though he appears calm after an initial crisis, he will then go somewhere private like the bathroom or bedroom where he will hurt or try to hurt himself, school said they will try to monitor him but can only do so much. We have a folllow up appointment with the camhs crisis team on Sunday aswell so I will update you all again. Thank you for your concern. It means a lot x

I will look into this, although I'm doubtful we could afford it right now :( thank you.

I really wish I could :(

Good for you being ready to fight for the ECHP, it might be less of a strain to just apply for it yourself and the school will then be asked for supporting evidence. I'm really glad they've realised the extent of how much he is struggling.

I know you speak about long term- and I know you were hesitant to apply for DSA but that could be a supplement if you do decide that leaving your job is the best way forward, and you might be eligible for other benefits too if your overall income would dip under a certain amount. And it could also be a short term solution- as when you get the EHCP you could then apply for a SEMH near you for secondary, which are equipped to help children like your DS.

Hope the one with CAHMS goes okay xx

Thank you, we visited camhs yesterday for a follow up appointment. They recommended play therapy, counselling etc. However he has cut his hands at school, threw a pair of scissors across the classroom and was singing that he wanted to kill himself. I just don't know what to do. Do I ring camhs crisis line again or just get on with it so to speak? :( any help is appreciated. Thank you.

I'd ring the CAHMS crisis line personally, if he's actively hurting himself (which he is by cutting his hands). If possible I'd also put in for parental leave at work Taking parental leave - Ordinary parental leave - Acas, and keep him off school to see how he is. If it's school that is the underlying root, and causing him to hurt himself, then I'd be keeping him off for a week and seeing how he is. If possible (and I know this is not always possible!) but I'd also start looking for remote jobs, OP, because it just doesn't sound like he is coping in school and could do with being homeschooled. I know this also doesn't happen overnight but if you can start to put plans in place now, and communicate to your son that you are doing so, it might give him a sense of relief too.

Ring the crises line OP, and yes do what pp has suggested take parental leave and see if pulling him out helps. Good luck. If you need info on Home Ed HEFA (Home Education for All) on Facebook has loads of information.

If he’s suicidal would childrens A and E help?

They have a big mental health emergency team at our local kids A and E. I mean a suicidal adult will often present at A and E