New cleaning rota at work feels sexist

[Kayleigh1234]

The company I work for has a fairly small office space within a bigger complex. We were told last week that as there’s lower office attendance due to WFH/hybrid, our company is no longer paying for the site cleaning service and we will be responsible for cleaning our small kitchen space and bathroom ourselves.

Fwiw, I believe the real reason is because of cost cutting and the price of that service increased in April which I’d heard the bosses moan about previously.

Anyway, our (male) manager emailed round the cleaning rota today and the first 7 slots are ALL females (every female on the team is named consecutively). 4 male colleagues are then named, before it reverts.

The manager and his usual step up/deputy, are not named despite them being in the office as much as the rest of us. His deputy is the same job level as me and a couple of others, and when he was asked why he isn’t on the rota, he said ‘he hasn’t got time for that sort of thing’.

Am I wrong to feel like this is all a bit off?

It’s not sexist if there are men on the rota. The order people are on the list isn’t really relevant.

the fact that manager and his right hand person who is on the same level as OP aren’t on the list is the problem. I would just flat out refuse and say it’s discriminatory that some people at my level are expected to clean up after others and that’s not going to happen.

I don’t. I have cleaners. Sue me.
The point I was making is that it’s not in OP’s job description to clean bathrooms, so she shouldn’t!

But there are males on the list so a complaint of sexism wouldn’t hold.

Another colleague asked in a light hearted way if there’s a reason the females are the first on the list. The manager just said ‘we thought you ladies would show the men how it should be properly done so they can have no excuses’.

I think it would.

CC everyone in your office in, and your union rep if you have one! Send an email like the below, outlining your objections, and your requirements for actually doing the job.

"Hi Manager,
I wanted to follow up on what was discussed at the meeting this morning regarding the cleaning of the office.
I'd like to strongly object to the cleaning duties being assigned by rota. These are not in my job description or contract, and no consultation on the take up of extra duties has taken place.
I would also ask whether appropriate training will be provided, if these duties are required, as upon verbal enquiry, we've been told 'you're adults, just get on with it'.
If these duties are to be completed on a rota system, this should be by everyone in the office, without prejudice to rank, role or gender. Currently, X is not on the rota, and has verbally confirmed that 'he doesn't have time for that', as I'm sure you're aware, we are of equivalent grades, and therefore if his job role won't be adapted to include the cleaning, mine shouldn't be either.
I'd also like to register an objection to being expected to train others in an area which I have not been trained, as XXX made a comment of 'the women can show the men how to do it', which I am uncomfortable doing, having not been trained myself in this area.
I'd also ask whether there will be a renumeration in terms of money, or dropping of other duties to accommodate the time required to to fulfil these new duties? And if so, what money/ time is to be allowed for this?

I'd also like to see a full formal risk assessment for staff cleaning the office/kitchen/ toilets, which should include full COSHH reports for each cleaning product to be used. As I'm sure you'll be aware, a full risk assessment is required for any tasks not covered by existing risk assessments. As this is a new duties for staff within the office, I have not seen a risk assessment for this, and am not comfortable performing this duty unless I see a full risk assessment first.

Please note that I have copied the entire office into this email, as I do believe many others will have the same objections and queries. I have also copied in union rep, who will be assisting me in representing our staff's interests going forwards.

Please respond asap. I will be unable to take up any of these additional duties until I have had the above answered."

I've worked in places (not offices, more retail/hospitality), where staff do cleaning, and all the things like risk assessments, COSHH sheets, cleaning rotas etc are fully available, and managers are able to provide training in anything required if needed (even casual training - you'd be surprised how many people can't mop properly). There's also cleaning oversight in terms of having things checked off by a manager, and proper storage of cleaning chemicals. If your manager is serious about putting this in, they need to provide all the above, and address the inequality in the rota!

@Kayleigh1234

Another colleague asked in a light hearted way if there’s a reason the females are the first on the list. The manager just said ‘we thought you ladies would show the men how it should be properly done so they can have no excuses’

So absolutely straightforward sexism and penny pinching. Also if they use the loos and kitchen they should be on the rota.
When are you supposed to be doing this cleaning (which I assume is not part of your job description)? Inside your paid hours so a reduction in output from your normal job? Or do they think you are all going to do this for free as an extra? (how long do the contract company spend on site?).

As for “common sense” I’d be arsey about it and ask them to specify exactly what needs doing or simply not do it properly and ask them to tell me what I’m doing wrong. Or I’d simply tell them what they could do with their job but I’m not in a position of desperately needing to hold onto a job.

a place i worked at was an international company, from a country that has embedded sexism (it is blowing up in their faces, yaay)

We were about 80/20 men to women, and as a manager i was one of 2 women among about 30 men. It was... interesting.

I used to jump on anyone - from the MD down - if they left mess anywhere but especially the kitchen. And i used to insist that any meeting room we used was left as we found it (clean, wiped down, fridge restocked) and often i would just get the 3 most junior people there to do it. It often turned out to be all men and once the HR director asked me why i never asked women. I just turned their love of heirarchy and knowing your place against them and it all went very well.

No way would I be doing this.

1. Not in my (or anyone else's) job description
2. Sexist - they are creating a discrimination case & I would be on to ACAS

All of the women, but not all the males, that is the point

No. 4 males are on the list

Yes yes but this comment came later in the thread. And yes this comment is sexist

The manager and his deputy (who is at the same level as the OP) are not on the list

It doesn’t sound sexist if the men are on the rota . But absolutely no way would I be happy cleaning the toilets at work! Maintaining the kitchen yes but not a full on clean.
Anyway I’m not sure if this is ok H&S wise, have they given you additional training? You will be handling cleaning chemicals and possibly biohazardous waste - they would be in trouble if anyone got bleach in their eye etc
I know you all clean at home but doing it in a work setting at the request of your employer is very different

Even without the quote, the act of putting all the women first was discriminatory. A role that is stereotypically seen as a woman's job and that no one is going to want to do being shared out with all the women being put down to do it first.

It was a clear signal that it's seen as primarily a woman's role. The comment is just icing.

Well, who's being sexist now? This sweeping stereotype may apply to some of your acquaintances, but assuming it applies universally is the very definition of sexism.

For what it's worth, I'm a man and do all the cleaning in our house. And as a student the dirtiest flat in my friendship group had all female residents.

Oh, and to respond to the OP: this sounds like a terrible idea, and putting women on the cleaning rota while omitting men at the same level of seniority certainly looks sexist to me.

The fact that a few men are on the list doesn't stop this being sexist. It might be arguable that more senior staff could reasonably be omitted from the rota, but that doesn't work where there are two people on the same level and only the woman is expected to clean.

So a work colleague at the same level as you is exempt from the cleaning roter, either because his male or because he's a friend of the manager, either way not right.
But if you fight them on these grounds they could stick his name on the list ("John, we've had to put your name on the cleaning roter but don't worry about actually cleaning its just to shut them up").or you could fight them on the grounds of "it's not in your job description ", better option as it means you'll all be fighting this not just the women, or level of seniority.

Depends if they used grade or actual job spec to not put themselves on the rota
if OP is same grade then presume she’s an assistant manager so surely she’d have some input into all this

tbh I think you all need to be honest and say you don’t want to do it
but they need to look at their job description to see if they have to do it rather than some grasping at straws sexism claim

tbf the managers response was piss poor but probably an eye roll response as sounds like kids in the playground ” it’s not fair why do we have to go first “

I'd be more than happy to clean up any mess that I made as I go but I wouldn't be cleaning up after anyone else.

What about hoovering office or mopping toilet / kitchen floors?

I'd be ok washing my own stuff up in the kitchen or wiping a surface down. Your management make it sound so easy though. It's not just a quick vacuum of the floor, you've also got:

• thorough cleaning of the toilet, sink, mirror
• mop toilet floor
• empty sanitary bin
• replenish toilet rolls and paper towels
• empty general waste bin(s)
• wipe desks, skirting boards, door handles, light fittings, general touch points etc
• wipe kitchen surfaces, including under appliances
• periodic clean of fridge and microwave if you have them
• mop kitchen floor
• vacuum office floor
• laundering of any cleaning cloths/tea towels etc
• replenish cleaning supplies when they get low

A proper cleaning company will do all these sorts of things, not just flick a cloth over. The office is going to get grubby very quickly if a thorough job isn't done.

The men will try and deliberately do a shit job….hoping they’ll be “let go” of doing the chores.
seen this all before 🙄

This sums it perfectly.

Most women would get this. Some men too. However, I suspect your boss thinks it just involves squirting some cleaner down the toilet and washing a couple of mugs.

If everyone sucks it up and does it then do the very bare minimum.