To have not known kids have to attain grade 4 in maths?

[Pepperpotladles]

I did not know this!
I have obviously been living under a rock.
So today someone told me that if kids get grades 1, 2 or 3 in their maths GCSE, it is compulsory that all these kids have to keep on studying GCSE maths until they achieve a grade 4 or above, and they have to keep trying to achieve this up until their 25th birthday.
Is this true?!?
I can't believe my ears.
What about kids who simply can't achieve grade 4 or above in maths, for any number of reasons?

You know what I mean though. Some people would have written me off as a failure. And actually, nearly 30 years ago, I did have to do some written stuff, especially on when I was doing payroll and holiday.

And later as a finance manager in a school, I certainly had to use maths and do some in test form as part of the interview.

I think you have nailed it with the 'life skills maths' point. I can do all of the things you mentioned without having grade 4 GCSE maths. We don't need the exam certificate to function in society, but we do need maths.

And it has to be said, I know people with grade 4 and higher GCSE maths who can't actually do a fair few of those things.

Or they could be bright but struggle with the school environment, social interactions and pressure like my DS.

He is very capable of doing very well in most subjects, but keeping him able to do the work is difficult.

Yep, this is true. Not sure about the age but my DS had to retake at College. Finally got it on 5th attempt!

Wales did split maths into seperate numeracy maths and maths GCSE.

DS sat maths Nov Y11 and then did numeracy in May and DD2 sat Numeracy in Nov Y11 - and is sitting maths now.

I think they mostly get similar grades in both - or grade out.

Every where still asks for maths and English language at grade C not numeracy or Literature. They can also still leave education at 16 in Wales but apparently only if they have C in maths and English - no idea how that's enforced.

However most go on and college course anyway and college has full classes for maths and english GCSE retakes though they do allow them to re-taken - or one at leasts - next to other courses including A-levels.

Year after next it's all reform and maths and english have both been combined to one GCSE again - a GCSE worth double others. Not sure what impact that will have.

Im.pretty sure they did I had to retake maths at college in 1991
The only reason I dropped it during my third attempt was because I had a place on,a nurse training course who accepted a science of you didn't have maths but I remember my sister needing,if for uni although she was doing primary teaching
But I also remember a lad that only got into.uni after eventually passing his maths on about his 7th attempt!

My DH has A-Level in Further Maths at grade A but falls to pieces and can't cope when it's time to do the annual Self Assessment tax return.

I think it's down to highly educated people like that not realising how simple some things actually can be. They sometimes look for complications when there are none.

I see a lot of it with some of my highly educated clients such as IT consultants, who in theory should be absolute whizzes when it comes to accounting, VAT, tax returns, etc., but are absolutely hopeless with basic/simple stuff, looking to solve problems that don't actually exist.

Many of them simply can't get to grips with simple book-keeping software and get themselves tangled in so many knots seemingly trying to avoid doing the simple things. I've lost count of the number of them who've given up on book-keeping software and created their own convoluted spreadsheets or databases which are an absolute nightmare to work with and completely unnecessary (and prone to errors despite all kinds of "proofs" being built in that are utterly bonkers to a layman but probably make absolute sense to someone with a masters degree!).

I think one of the most memorable was a woman who'd retired and started making/selling jewelry more as a hobby than a business. Very low turnover. I literally only needed two figures from her - the total of her sales for the tax year and the total of her costs for the tax year. All she needed to do was list out the in's and out's and give me two figures. That's what I asked her for. What she produced was from a different planet - a multi-tabbed purchases spreadsheet with every single component purchase listed, linked to a multi tabbed sales spreadsheet with every single sale listed, and broken down into exact amounts of each component that was used to make every item made, another spreadsheet showing the detail of every component (or part thereof) that was scrapped, broken, etc, a spreadsheet breaking her postage costs down into each sale, each envelope posted to pay a bill, etc., it was a work of art - completely useless as she'd forgotten to put dates on any of it and it spanned more than one tax year, so I couldn't use it as it didn't show the sales and costs figures for the specific tax year. (It was also a pile of crap as there were so many errors, mistakes, etc., but it looked pretty). What she thought I wanted was light years away from what I actually wanted - she just hadn't listened or had listened but assumed she was right in her thinking and I was wrong.

It's actually a pretty common trait in more highly educated people to actually second guess what they think someone wants rather than listening to what they tell you they want.

You can do functional maths at school. Or you don't actually have to take maths at all if you are at a specialist school. My daughter (ASD) is at a specialist school and they are all doing what is suited to their abilities and aspirations.

Maybe some schools offer it but my sons school.didn't unfortunately even at college it's difficult to get them onto functional skills.

If it were up to me I'd make Maths and English GCSEs optional and would suggest the following:

Everyone does functional skills for Maths and English exams age 14. If you don't pass then you get further help to get to this level, along with the academic and/or vocational subjects chosen.

If you actually like and are good at English and Maths then you can continue with them after Y9.

Have you seen a maths functional skills exam. They're actually quite hard. Very wordy.

No, I haven't.

It doesn't have to be the current format, but should be the sort of maths skills you need for every day life and a lot of jobs at 14. Then if you really like it you can go on to study it further.

Also the way maths is taught needs a rejig.

I was doing a horticulture course six years ago and the concept of trigonometry suddenly clicked. We used it to measure and dig an accurate veg bed. If we'd gone outside and done that in a double maths 35 years ago, instead of being taught to press the right buttons on the calculator, I might have got there sooner!

Most areas don't do the 11+ anymore .

GCSE English is a nightmare for many children on the autism spectrum - nothing to do with intelligence or ability to read. Ds got a 7 for his maths but took 3 attempts to get a 4 at gcse English. It’s a horrible exam when seen through an autistic framework.

The Kent Test is really hard. I am educated to postgraduate level but certainly wouldn't pass the Maths element. I even got a fair bit of the verbal reasoning wrong. It was harder than a verbal reasoning test I did to get a job as Senior Solicitor in which I got 100%. And the non-verbal reasoning can absolutely get stuffed. Even looking at the right answers, I had no idea why it waa correct. To me it's like when the Faraway Tree gang go to Dame Slap's school, and the questions are like "Where do penguins live?" and the correct answer is "Wednesday".

I find your posts incredibly tone deaf.

I'm not being defensive because DD is bright and achieved the highest grade for maths as well, however, I know and understand that loads of young people don't find it easy.

I don't look down my nose and sneer at people who are less academic .

Good for you. I’ll get you a lollipop.

I wasn’t allowed to sit the credit paper. My husband sat that and had a private maths tutor and got the same grade 🤷🏻‍♀️ it’s pretty meaningless and has never affected us at work. I just have no interest and my ADHD. Alex that worse as I’ll procrastinate and lose interest every two seconds. I don’t want to work out the square root of shit or how long the side of a triangle is. My brother has a PhD is some maths thing so he did enough for us both.

Which is what I meant. Glad your DC did well. Hard work rewarded is always lovely.

No biting necessary. I was responding directly to the OP who was completely unaware that y11s accepted to college would continue to resit maths for another go at achieving a pass, and asked about those who just can't (and I'm guessing those accepted with this condition stated are judged close enough / the 4 is within reach).

I don't think it's helpful to generalise 'kids who can't' and apply it to all who fail to do so in the first instance.

Many will do better after more time and practice.

Many will do better when more mature and upon realising that they need it as a stepping stone to do the next thing.

Many will do better on a November 'resit only' paper, as (in my experience) the papers seem to be set to be a bit more accessible, and those already achieving 5 and above won't be part of the cohort at all, so the field is different.

I know some pupils have immense challenges and will be nowhere near the level required even after hard work and huge support. But this just isn't the majority of the candidates on the borderline for a standard pass. And those kids should be taught moren and encouraged to try again, until they can meet the standard.

I didn’t know this at all, but my kid went to a grammar school and a 7 was considered a poor grade. I’d never even heard of anyone getting a 4.

But you must surely be aware that some people do get grade fours and below ,or was this just an excuse to show off your child's grade ?
Because to rest off the world outside of mumsnet a grade 7 would be considered good it's ,s low A 🙄🙄🙄

That was to @Skyscrapersinging.