To think some people are “stuck” not because of trauma, but because they’re lazy?

[ThatRealPinkTraybake]

Obviously trauma is real and can be life-altering. But some people hide behind it when they really just don’t want to make hard changes or do uncomfortable work. AIBU to think that not every case of being “stuck” is deep - sometimes it’s just avoiding effort?

oh, what's this? Another open invitation for disability bashing. what fun.

Yes. At some point, you have to take control of your destiny. You are the only person who can fix your future. Btw, I'm not saying it is easy or that one show fits all.

What is the point of this post?

Where did OP mention disabilities?

You are going to get a lot of people curling up into the fetal position telling you that you are being terribly triggering but yes you are 100% right.

Everyone has hassle. Everyone has things they wish had gone differently and times when they were in situations when they were treated in a way that’s not ideal. Of course there are times when things go extremely wrong and these people need support. However, many now take anything where they aren’t handed everything on a plate and have to put in some effort as an excuse to completely cop out and have a completely learned incompetence.

It’s baffling and totally counter productive as those who actually need help end up not getting support because there is an assumption that everyone is just taking the piss.

To start a conversation about when ‘stuck’ is trauma and when it’s just avoidance. That’s all.

And this affects you enough to post about it, how?

I think " trauma" has become a mostly meaningless word because of overuse. Like " transphobic".

It’s difficult for people to move forward from trauma. It’s like their ship sank and they scrabbled around for a lifeboat and now people expect them to abandon the lifeboat and swim. It takes time to heal and the survival brain will resist healing and want to stay on the lifeboat. Sadly I think some people can’t heal and will stay frozen in trauma.

Being ‘treated in a way less than ideal’ is very different to actual traumatic experiences some people go through. Huge difference.

Take control of your destiny? Are you serious? Trauma isn't something going wrong in life, it's having something dreadful happen to you - like being raped, being abused, watching a loved one die in terrible circumstances eg. an accident, losing a child unexpectedly (or expectedly), a late miscarriage......

These are not things that happen to everyone everyday. Sometimes they're hard to work through. Sometimes you never actually get over it. Sometimes t here's a huge scar right across the middle of your life that itches and demands more of your attention than you realistically have to give.

It's way more than 'changes' and 'hard work'.

Jesus wept.

Spoken like someone who has never experienced significant and long lasting trauma. If you had, you’d know it wasn’t quite as simple as that. The effect of living in high levels of stress and fear for years has a lasting impact on the body and mind, and trust me, no one would WANT to live like that. Also mental health services for both adults and children are scant, to say the least, so unless people can afford to go private, which most can’t, then it’s tough shit.

Whether or not it affects the OP is irrelevant. She clearly wants to start a discussion about something that she considers important.

FWIW, words like trauma and (chronic) post traumatic stress are sometimes used in relation to events that may not warrant them. It is true that stressful or devastating events can affect different people very differently, but everyone who finds themselves in a situation that sounds overwhelming should at least try very hard to deal with this. And that includes seeking appropriate help from friends, relatives, doctors, therapists, specific agencies or charitable organizations.

Can you give some examples of the kind of thing you mean.

I have "overcome" a lot of truly horrible trauma but I am acutely aware that is because I have had the privilege of other aspects of life being smoothish and have had the wealth to afford decent and lengthy therapy.

Avoidance is literally a symptom of trauma.
From the NHS website:
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/conditions/post-traumatic-stress-disorder-ptsd/symptoms/

Avoidance and emotional numbing
Trying to avoid being reminded of the traumatic event is another key symptom of PTSD.
This usually means avoiding certain people or places that remind you of the trauma, or avoiding talking to anyone about your experience.
Many people with PTSD try to push memories of the event out of their mind, often distracting themselves with work or hobbies.
Some people attempt to deal with their feelings by trying not to feel anything at all. This is known as emotional numbing.
This can lead to the person becoming isolated and withdrawn, and they may also give up pursuing activities they used to enjoy.

As for your original question of whether some people who say they have trauma are lazy - well its fairly pointless and goady question. Are struggling mothers lazy? Are unemployed people lazy? Are disabled people lazy? Presumably some are and some aren't, just like all people!

Stuck, avoidance, lack of will can overlap or be different things I think. Yes definitely some people can have all the knowledge to act but can’t act in their bodies - that’s the very definition of trauma, where there’s a disconnect between mind and body.

Motivation is complicated. Would point you to Dr David Maloney’s material on procrastination on YouTube if you want to understand more.

Recommend you look up Pete Walker’s trauma responses if you want to understand more about trauma. www.pete-walker.com/fourFs_TraumaTypologyComplexPTSD.htm

Indeed - but some people frame relatively minor events, or events that are part of the usual grist of being human as 'trauma' and demand unending support. Whilst others do go through actual traumatic experiences which they ultimately move on from.

Some posters seem to love saying they have PSTD/complex PTSD from relatively standard life events. The 'trauma' diagnoses is popular on Mumsnet alongside ADHD and autism.

Have you tried accessing "appropriate help" without the funds to do it privately?

Just waiting for the "lack of resilience" brigade to show up and advocate going for a walk and eating a banana.

One side effect of my "trauma" is barely suppressed rage, and it looks like this thread could be today's outlet. Rather than just resisting the urge to do vodka shots through my eyeballs.

I’ve been diagnosed with 2 cancers. One S4 and the other, growing fast. Yep, I’m stuck. Off work due to chemo, no idea if treatment will work, no idea if I can return to work, can’t look for a different job ( due to ongoing treatment)

Definitely stuck right now.
Call it want you want, it’s fucking shite!

I have a diagnosis of PTSD and also ASD. My trauma severely affects me and I have FND due to it. There’s no lack of effort or laziness I’m debilitated and it’s beyond my control

It's a huge privilege to have enough self-awareness and to be introspective enough to reflect on your own trauma, internal world, the way you relate to others, and enact change. It's a bit different if you've experienced something traumatic as an adult (e.g. a car crash).

It's not comparable to the impact on your psyche that significant childhood trauma has. Many people just don't have to psychological resources to deal with it alone. And how can they, if they've been abused and neglected by their own care givers? Our early years form our ability to deal with change, form relationships, affect our self-esteem, and so on. Some people get 'stuck' in their trauma, because they've spent an entire childhood flooded with stress hormones and hypervigilance. They need support and compassion to change. It would be like telling a diabetic to just try harder and produce more insulin.

And yes, some people are avoidant, but that's literally a psychological defence, that some people need support to overcome. Unconsciously, it won't feel safe for everyone to do hard work, make change, and address trauma. You need to feel psychologically safe to make any kind of change.

I'm a mental health nurse with older adults. I get people aged 80 who are still suffering with their mental health due to traumas that happened years ago. It's not something that goes away. You just live with it somehow. I've also had private therapy for years for my own childhood trauma, and it took a good couple of years of building trust and relational safety with my therapist before I could even begin to do the actual 'hard work'.

Also, and I say this working in them, mental health services are difficult to access and are not equipped to deal with significant trauma, which can take years.

And then what? When the compulsive thoughts go round and round in your head, until they are driving you insane. Nothing family, friends, GPs, therapists say, can make the compulsive thoughts stop. People say distract yourself, so you sit down to watch a film and within 10 minutes, the compulsive thoughts are obliterating everything else, you try to think about? The constant reliving of the emotions when the trauma happened.

It wouldn’t be complex post traumatic stress disorder if mere words from people, who mainly don’t know what they are doing, could make it go away. The clue is in the name of”complex”!

Why is it, people recognise a serious physical condition, like cancer needs treatment from experts; but all it takes is some effort and advice from any Tom, Dick or Harry to get over a serious mental health condition? Waiting lists round here for things like trauma focused CBT can be 2 - 3 years apparently?

@ThatRealPinkTraybake have you posted this because of social media ads saying that "procrastination is a trauma response" and stuff like that?

YANBU. Unfortunately, normal life experiences and people's emotional responses to these have become hyper-medicalised. I have seen people receive a diagnosis of depression for example, and throw their hands up saying 'well, that's that, I won't/can't ever get better, there's nothing I can do about this, this is permanent, I will apply for benefits based on it' lol. Same with other mental health problems. For all of the talk of normalising and destigmatising, it has become taboo to point out that many mental health problems have evidence-based treatments and people can recover from them.

I think most people have been through a traumatic incident, many people multiple, many people multiple traumas just in childhood alone. Completing the ACE questionnaire https://www.acesaware.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/ACE-Questionnaire-for-Adults-Identified-English-rev.7.26.22.pdf is quite enlightening.

For some people there's a safety net and so they can sink. Others, there isn't, and they have no choice but to swim. Personally I'm glad that I had no safety net and had to swim, as it taught me early on that nobody is going to come and save you and live and progress for you, it's only you that can do that.

It's important to highlight too that trauma is different to PTSD. Trauma is an emotional response to a terrible event like an accident, crime, or natural disaster. It's the emotions you experience after a distressing event. Trauma can be everyday things like a bereavement or finding out about infidelity or losing your job, everyone reacts to things differently. PTSD on the other hand is a disorder that can develop after a traumatic event, and is very treatable. Trauma is a normal, run of the mill life experience for all humans, unless you're incredibly lucky and sheltered and cosseted.

The Economist had an article on how the obsession with mental health has taken resources away from those who genuinely need it and lead to the pathologising of ordinary sadness, ennui, boredom.

I wish I could find it. Made some good points.