AIBU to think banning new international recruitment of staff for care homes is bonkers? [Title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[Locutus2000]

The latest Labour lunacy chasing the coat-tails of Reform.

"Care homes will be prevented from recruiting staff from abroad as part of an overhaul of rules to drive down net migration, Yvette Cooper has said.
In a change that will concern employers in the sector, the home secretary said providers should instead seek to employ foreign staff who have already come to the country or extend existing visas.

It is part of a preview of wider plans to be announced by Cooper on Monday designed to reduce net migration to the UK."

"In a series of interviews on Sunday, Cooper said the government would not set a figure for net migration but would target recruitment in lower-skilled sectors.

Speaking to Sky News’s Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips, Cooper said: “We’re going to introduce new restrictions on lower-skilled workers, so new visa controls, because we think actually what we should be doing is concentrating on the higher-skilled migration and we should be concentrating on training in the UK.

“New requirements to train here in the UK to make sure that the UK workforce benefits, and also we will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment.”

Asked by the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg where care homes would recruit staff from, Cooper said companies should recruit from a pool of people who came as care workers in good faith but had been “exploited” by unscrupulous employers.
“Care companies should be recruiting from those workers. They can also extend existing visas. They could recruit as well from people who are on other visas, who are already here. But we do think it’s time to end that care worker recruitment from abroad,” she said.

While Cooper declined to set a specific target for net migration, she said ministers believed changes to certain visas could result in “up to 50,000 fewer lower-skilled visas” over the next year."

Care homes have been at breaking point for years, few Brits want to work in them and those that do often burn out rapidly. I did several years and couldn't do it again.

Surely care homes are exactly where immigrant labour is needed? What is the alternative, other than actually paying care staff properly and improving working conditions to the point people actually want to do it?

Lucky you then !

Do you think overseas carers want to be carers or want to live in the UK?
Pay and conditions improvement is the way forward

@1dayatatime That’s just above the going rate here. Three I looked at for DM were around this. Failing ones were lower but the expensive ones had one vacancy. They were not half empty! I suspect the more expensive homes did r have LA clients. They did have a lovely atmosphere, stable staff and decent food, good rooms and very pleasant gardens. Basically very good homes. I have no doubt staff liked working there and were paid well enough.

Of course they do. It's a lot more money for them compared to their original country and a much better lifestyle.

i don’t think it’s luck. IMO, DD1 has been under care agencies or at residential placements, where they chose the care staff carefully. All the residential placements but one were charities, where mobile phones don’t work. DD1 had 1:2 or 1:1 staffing in her waking hours, since age 16. There are two shifts in the day time, so staff are working 7 - 8 hour shifts. I think the night staff work 10 hour shifts, but it’s not hands on work most of the night. They are mainly watching monitors in an office, and it might be 2:3.

Isn’t that usual for mn?

If someone else pays.

This is not a UK specific thing. Same is true in america as well (for example). People whom are driven to successfully make their way to a place where they can better their families are more likely to have the willpower and drive to... better their families lives!

IMO spending priorities in Central and Local government need to change to prioritise the Social Care sector, increasing the care workforce and improving working conditions. To achieve this budgets for non essentials should be redirected. I also think there should be more accountability for how public money is spent
It is rediculous that millions can be granted to council for 'vanity projects' whilst in the same area there is massive need for social and medical spending.
I live in the North near a city where there is high unemployment, poor health and much social deprivation. The city council is spending £25 million renovating some central grassy gardens which were only given a revamp 10 years ago. There was no consultation on whether residents wanted this or if it was value for money.
Im sure it could have been done a lot cheaper (The contracters are a big national company) - perhaps some of the local unemployed could have taken it on with some skilled supervision, as a community project to earn their benefits rather than trying to force all unemplyed into the care sector?
The money saved (and it would be millions Im sure) could have been invested in local care and medical facilities, making a career in Care an attractive job opportunity rather than a better view for the council workers in City Hall?
I know someone will say 'its a different budget' but perhaps central budget allocation and value for money on contracts should be a bigger priority for both central and local government.
My impression of both local and national politicians is that they are on cushy salaries and dont have a clue how the majority of the population live and what their real priorities are.

My impression of both local and national politicians is that they are on cushy salaries and dont have a clue how the majority of the population live and what their real priorities are.

DH’s impression is that most employees in local authorities would be unemployable anywhere else.

Sadly your situation then is different from your average old person getting a quick 15 min visit in a day from a carer . It's good that you feel you are getting the support you need.

I have no idea why people will not acknowledge this . It is well known that immigrants work bloody hard.

"It is well known that immigrants work bloody hard" - is it? Is this an actual fact or perception.

From what I can tell, there is some indication that they might work longer hours initially but that this reduces after a few years.

It could also be the fact they are more likely to be in low paid work - I imagine those in low paid work, immigrant or not need to work longer hours to make up for the lower pay.

I work somewhere with a high mix of immigrant workers - it's not very well paid. We all work 'bloody hard' - that is the basic requirement of most jobs today, especially minimum wage jobs.

Always! Always pushed on to high tax payers, but there are very few of those left.

Anyway, the reason I expressed an admiration for S Asian and Filipino carers is that they tend to speak decent English. I don't care if it is accented; so is my mum's! Most S Asian carers are from Kerala. They are usually Christian and often educated in what are called convent schools, which means good English. That's my experience, anyway.

As a former teacher I have seen and discussed the ambition for children that is to be found in many immigrant families. Not all of them . I'm excluding the current crop of illegal young Middle Eastern non family men. I'm talking about our Indian and Caribbean immigrants who have worked long and hard for their families. In particular with Indians the drive for education is way up there. Children were often pushed so hard with cramming to the detriment of other things eg sports and social activities. If you don't recognise this then it may be that you have not been exposed to these communities. There's always the jokes about having to be a doctor but there's truth in there!

Agree 💯

I guess the idea here is to put all care homes into public ownership, that way there will be no private operators making their unacceptable levels of profit... somehow this means wages will rise sharply (including in the 18% of homes currently operated by local authorities or NHS or charities). And that way (by putting all homes outside private sector) all the staff providing in-home-care packages will also be instantly paid much more and taxes won't need to rise for any of it....

Do I have that right?

In other news, I was wondering if anyone would like to buy one of these. I breed them see, and sell them for a mere £55 each. Just send me your bank login details if you want one...

@foreverblowingbubbless I'm not talking about ambition/aspiration.

I'm talking about the reality of working life, hard labour, long hours, work that is hard and difficult.(and often badly paid)

I reject that the only people doing this are from immigrant families. In fact immigrant families are often desperate for their children to not work as hard as they have or in the same sort of work- that's why they want them to do professional jobs.

I think this has been largely true in the past, but it is less clear of it continues to be true.

The fact is in the past most immigrants were in many ways the most motivated people. In some cases because only the most impressive people were accepted. But also because even with asylum seekers it took a heck of a lot of drive and desire to get to a place like the UK and get started. They also wanted to integrate as part of UK society even if they maintained a connection to their roots.

This is not really the case to the same extent now. I think there are more people who seek to immigrate, and their motives and sense of what they will find is not the same. Awareness of and access to the west seems greater, and awareness of how to get o another country. Some still have the attitudes that used to be common but it seems like many don't.

Yes I agree.

At no point did I say that they were the only ones working hard but theirs certainly a sector in this country of non working cadgers. I see them walking their increasing number of children to nursery and school every day.

Other options include paying care workers properly or people caring for their own families. The State can't keep picking up the tab for low paid overseas workers to work for private companies.

But this part of the problem -prices (ie wages) have been kept down artificially by using immigrants instead of paying a decent rate for locals.

How are they cheaper? Are they on less than minimum wage?

The State can't keep picking up the tab for low paid overseas workers to work for private companies.

Can the state afford to pick up the tab for the careworkers as long as they work for the state or charities?

Other options include paying care workers properly

Sure that's fine, so everyone clamouring for higher taxes, right?

...or people caring for their own families.

I walk a dog for a disabled lady who got suddenly hospitalised at about 2am this morning. I took her dog to her elderly disabled brother today & went and visited her on the wards this evening. Because we both knew she wouldn't get any other visitors. Her siblings are all elderly & increasingly disabled. Her husband is 22 yrs deceased. Her son has chronic MH issues & only contacts her to demand money. Exactly who are the family members who would look after her? Pah.

I chased down the tea trolley lady for the hospitalised lady, and ended up programming her IV drip machine. Who knew hospital visits could be so fun.

Flooding the market with low wage workers is a major way that employers keep wages down.

In these cases, they keep the wages near as low as they can be for a difficult job . Locals don't see the hard work as being adequately compensated, and likely know they can' t really support themselves on those wages, so don't apply.

In the normal course of things, they employer would have to make the wages or benefits higher or the job more appealing to attract workers.

If you import a bunch of workers who will accept lesser wages, that prevents the need for employers to increase wages. Why will the outside workers accept those wages? Possibly because they are used to being paid very poorly, or because they are willing to live in conditions locals won't (sharing rooms for example,) or. they are willing to take bad pay and conditions for the chance to have access to the social welfare system that doesn't exist in their own country.

This is why capitalists have always loved movement of labour and globalism, it suppresses wages.Up until recently it also typically benefitted the middle classes who gain access to cheap goods and services while their professional jobs earn more.