AIBU to think banning new international recruitment of staff for care homes is bonkers? [Title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

[Locutus2000]

The latest Labour lunacy chasing the coat-tails of Reform.

"Care homes will be prevented from recruiting staff from abroad as part of an overhaul of rules to drive down net migration, Yvette Cooper has said.
In a change that will concern employers in the sector, the home secretary said providers should instead seek to employ foreign staff who have already come to the country or extend existing visas.

It is part of a preview of wider plans to be announced by Cooper on Monday designed to reduce net migration to the UK."

"In a series of interviews on Sunday, Cooper said the government would not set a figure for net migration but would target recruitment in lower-skilled sectors.

Speaking to Sky News’s Sunday Morning with Trevor Phillips, Cooper said: “We’re going to introduce new restrictions on lower-skilled workers, so new visa controls, because we think actually what we should be doing is concentrating on the higher-skilled migration and we should be concentrating on training in the UK.

“New requirements to train here in the UK to make sure that the UK workforce benefits, and also we will be closing the care worker visa for overseas recruitment.”

Asked by the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg where care homes would recruit staff from, Cooper said companies should recruit from a pool of people who came as care workers in good faith but had been “exploited” by unscrupulous employers.
“Care companies should be recruiting from those workers. They can also extend existing visas. They could recruit as well from people who are on other visas, who are already here. But we do think it’s time to end that care worker recruitment from abroad,” she said.

While Cooper declined to set a specific target for net migration, she said ministers believed changes to certain visas could result in “up to 50,000 fewer lower-skilled visas” over the next year."

Care homes have been at breaking point for years, few Brits want to work in them and those that do often burn out rapidly. I did several years and couldn't do it again.

Surely care homes are exactly where immigrant labour is needed? What is the alternative, other than actually paying care staff properly and improving working conditions to the point people actually want to do it?

What would you do about those arriving by boat

Because that's racist, apparently.
Also foreign health care workers are rapists with thick accents.

I’m from a working class area in Glasgow. I am familiar with many Scottish men who prefer to do cash in hand work to supplement their benefits and spend their days at weatherspoons rather than do a 9-5 or shift work or whatever .

My childhoods friend’s brother has never held down a job and he’s now almost 50.

I’d laugh in anyone’s face if they called me racist or classist. (And it’s a blooming insult for the real victims of racism to throw that word around in this context)

This not being bothered to work is a thing, it happens across Brits of all races. There are multiple reasons for it happening and I appreciate some didn’t have the best upbringing but it’s still an issue. No point denying it.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/glasgow-second-highest-out-of-work-benefit-britain-njfqhmlh6

PP on this thread seem to think your brother and others will happily work as care workers if the pay is fair. So raise taxes and make care more expensive.
I guess we shall see.

Sorry not your brother!

Indeed, I guess we will see.

And yeah thankfully he’s not my brother 😂

Because Labour don’t want you asking them that.

This is what a poster called @Bumpitybumper has posted on a social housing thread
I would actually suggest it's the complete opposite. So many posters on MN have a massive sense of entitlement and don't give a crap about tax payers. They don't even regard them as people with wants and needs just like them. They couldn't give a toss about the people actually subsidising them. Look on this thread and you will see proof of that. People declaring that they shouldn't be forced to give up their tax payer subsidised housing as this will mean they 'lose out'. When you drill down into it, what they actually lose out on is tax payer funded resources that they now feel they are entitled too. They don't feel like they should pay market value for a property in the same way that all the people actually funding their social housing have to.
I am glad we have a welfare state but sometimes I think that people have lost sight of the fact that the people that are beneficiaries of the system should be grateful to those who are funding them. Without the net contributors then the whole thing falls down. We can't all be subsidised through life

WHERE THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS THINK PEOPLE WHO DO LOW PAID WORK LIKE CARE WORK LIVE
THIS is another reason why people are reluctant to do work like this Because they get looked down on and treated like shit on someones shoe when they do!

@JenniferBooth
WHERE THE FUCK DO PEOPLE LIKE THIS THINK PEOPLE WHO DO LOW PAID WORK LIKE CARE WORK LIVE
THIS is another reason why people are reluctant to do work like this Because they get looked down on and treated like shit on someones shoe when they do!*

Don't be ridiculous. You have quoted me completely out of context from a thread about social housing where people were complaining about giving up their under occupied social housing because they would 'lose out'. My point is that those who are working in the low paid jobs and needing bigger houses can only get this if those under occupying the houses move on. The sense of entitlement is insane to think that you shouldn't relinquish a state benefit when you don't need it anymore.

Also just to add, my post was in response to someone suggesting that people only point out that some posters aren't net contributors so that they can feel a sense surpemacy. This isn't the case and often posters are pointing out that someone i.e. The taxpayer, a real living breathing human who is probably struggling themselves, is paying money into the system so that net beneficiaries can benefit. Of course they should be grateful about this. Does this mean that people also shouldn't be grateful for the hard work carers do even if they're lowly paid? Absolutely not. This is also a great contribution to society and should be recognised as such. There is more than one way to contribute to society and we should be grateful to anyone that is contributing.

Yvette Cooper seems to be suggesting that there are a pool of people already here on care visas who weren't placed in care jobs. Why were they given visas when they didnt go into jobs in care? They probably came here to work illegally in other, more lucrative jobs. It does sound like the visa application system was completely mismanaged by the previous government (unsurprisingly) and they were just handing out 'skilled worker' visas willy nilly without doing basic checks. There are small one man band businesses who have been granted hundreds of visas, so are clearly running an immigration scam under the governments nose. Why was the 'religious' visas given out to Imams from hostile states like Iran? The whole things looks like an absolute binfire. Mostly caused by the Tories.

@Tomatotater

"Yvette Cooper seems to be suggesting that there are a pool of people already here on care visas who weren't placed in care jobs. Why were they given visas when they didnt go into jobs in care? "

What often happened was that legal migrants came to the UK on care visas, often being sold the dream by agents about how it was such a wonderful career opportunity.

They then discovered that compared to other jobs in the UK it was relatively underpaid and with crap working conditions. So they left care work for other UK work despite having just a "care worker visa".

All I can say is based on my experience with my mother. The English staff at her home were really abysmal, lazy, uneducated and uncaring. My mother also had Filipino carers who were just more caring, more able and went above and beyond the basics of her home. They really had greater empathy and respect for older people. Most of the Filipino staff had degrees or had trained in nursing back home whereas the English staff were really the ones in the bottom sets at school and so had to go into low paid jobs.

I think even if care workers and care staff were paid more, this country does not have the culture of respect for older people and by this short sighted decision based on pandering to racists who are turning to reform, we will have to rely on being poorly treated or neglected as we age. Not something I relish.

Many of our care homes are run and managed badly. Staff are employed who are totally unsuitable for the role, but as long as they’re prepared to work for minimum wage, then it seemingly doesn’t matter. The industry just attracts uneducated individuals, when what we need are people trained up and with basic education and who can speak English. Too many can’t communicate adequately with the people in their care, which surely should be one of the main requirements when working with vulnerable people.

Let’s be honest, the young men coming in on boats are hardly going to be taking jobs in care homes….

This is exactly my experience too.

My mum is very ill with dementia,in a nursing home ,
They are all absolutely lovely staff ,kind and caring.
But ..only less than 20%have English as a first language.including the manager
When they are discussing her medical care and medication,they do not have the vocabulary to have an in-depth discussion,it's just very basic
They also speak to each other in their own language whilst getting on with jobs around the home .for dementia patients,I do worry this must add to their confusion.
But as I said they are very kind and caring,and this is the third home she has been in .due to horrendous problems in the others ,and it's by far the best home.
So I just hope her dementia is so far advanced she doesn't notice the unfamiliar language around her

Perhaps Yvette Cooper and her ilk should start by having enough people in her department to be able to process and check visas of people arriving. People are willing and able to work but getting a job can take weeks if not months.
Those of us who interact with some of these departments, after being held in a queue forever, wonder how they recruited their staff in the first place

I don’t give a fuck whether it’s seen as bigoted or whatever, elderly Women living alone should not have young Men as ‘caregivers’ , coming into their homes where they are completely vulnerable.

There is a group of at least 8 young African carers ( 3 Male) working in my village, my street alone has several elderly ill or disabled people needing care visits , they drive like lunatics, are in and out within 5 minutes so the barest of ‘care’ given. One of them has started leaving his car outside my house for 10 hours while he jumps in another car and goes elsewhere.

It’s changed in the last year or so, the middle aged Female carers I used to see are no longer around.

Having worked in education, I can think of scores of caring, hardworking students who drift into A levels and degrees in subjects that have high unemployment.
They complete their degree, have student debt and then sit unemployed or in low skilled work because of a lack of awareness of jobs that are in high demand that match their academic level and skill set.
A lot of people are better with 'hands on jobs' rather than pursuing 'airy-fairy' non vocational degree courses. Thats a luxury as a country that we cant afford.
Goverment needs to change societies perception of the value of these shortage jobs and actively encourage the less academic but socially empathic and caring unemployed people to retrain to do joba in the care sector
The government should offer priority funding for well paid apprenticeships in the shortage areas on Wiggypigs list by shutting down the courses they fund at universities that have high unemployment rate and using the money for apprenticeships instead.
They also need to make sure the employers comply with British employment laws to prevent exploitation.
Not all of the jobs on the shortage list are face to face caring jobs and not all are academically challenging.
So thre shouldnt be a need to force the unemployed into the face to face care sector.
The government needs to do a massive restructure of the care system followed by PR and media campagns to change peoples perceptions of these being poorly paid dead end jobs.

They are coming in to claim asylum and therefore can’t work until through the system. Not stopped. Treated fairly. Compare this to those arriving with a work visa for an actual job that pays tax and social security and it’s a job few Brits want to do and soon they’ll be stopped. Makes no sense.

That list of shortage occupations...

2224: psychotherapists and cognitive behaviour therapists
2225: clinical psychologists
2226: other psychologists
2229: therapy professionals not elsewhere classified

As someone with a degree in psychology and lower level counselling qualifications (ie not a trained counsellor, preparatory courses), I'm aware of so many people who want to do these jobs, and how fierce the competition is especially to train in clinical psychology, or to get an assistant psychologist job.

Something is very wrong with the system is we have all these people keen to work in this area who cannot, yet we are recruiting from abroad.

I don't know about the other professions but I bet some of them are similar.

@BorgQueen ITA - MIL was assessed as needing 4 care visits a day, after breaking her hip in her 90s.

Her husband never saw her naked from the front. She always turned her back on him to put her nightie on. There was no way on earth, she was going to let young African men help her with a strip wash at the kitchen sink and get dressed - because she couldn’t get upstairs to use the only bathroom. All she let them do was empty the commode down the toilet, after they burnt her dinner in the microwave.

I don’t blame her I prefer to see women doctors, but I’ll put up with medical examinations by male doctors or nurses; because I know they are professionals and it’s necessary. Better than dying of cancer. However I wouldn’t want young male care workers washing me - who only started last week.

Uk care homes cannot attract uk staff because they are not doing what they need to to make the job attractive/worth doing. They need to:

• ensure shift patterns are predictable to allow people to plan childcare etc - no zero hours etc.
• offer some shorter/part time shifts.
• offer training that enables staff to progress to better paid roles over time.
• stop exploitative practices like not paying workers for travel between jobs.
• pay more for work in more challenging areas like dementia care where patients may exhibit difficult behaviour

The NHS could support with some of this, for example by partnering with the care sector to require nurses in training to do rotations in care.

Agree! It's lunacy . These boat people are not looking to improve their life by working hard. They have heard it is a soft touch country where they will be given money and lodgings in return for doing nothing.

Where does the money come from? Also, immigrants are far far more likely to be hard workers than the homegrown na're-do-wells....