Is my four year old spoilt?

[Throwawayyyy]

Changed name. Been here years. Sistine chapel, weird mobile found in the back garden etc.

I have concerns about my four year old DC. To begin with, I have ADHD. I don’t know if my DC has it because I can’t tell what’s normal child-like behaviour and what isn’t if I’m honest, I had no experience of kids before having DC.

They are a very bright and fun-loving child and I have had no complaints about their behaviour at school, they seem to be well liked and always good reports. But at home, there are aspects about their behaviour that I really dislike. They aren’t naughty per se but I find them rude. They aren’t always demanding toys or crap food and kick off if they don’t get it. If we’re out and I talk to someone else they get into a hissy fit and hit me. They get wound up about the idea of another child touching their things and hit cross with me a few weeks back because I borrowed a pound from them for a supermarket trolley as I didn’t have any change. I asked them and they went ballistic at the idea of me borrowing something even though they were reassured they would get it back.

I say no to most requests, I discipline behaviour I don’t think is okay but it’s like they forget immediately. So they might be rude to me, they get into trouble, five minutes later they’re rude again. Three times today they’ve interrupted and shouted and hit me when I’ve been talking to another adult, even though all three times it was a minute or two. They want me with them all the time and if I am busy, say cooking, they get really angry and cry.

I don’t know what is normal or if this is spoilt behaviour? When we have play dates they seem to be just like other kids and I have no concerns, but alone their behaviour seems so rude that it’s making me concerned that they will grow up spoilt. But I don’t spoil them at all? They aren’t showered with gifts or anything, but they ask me every day, every time we’re out it’s all ‘I want, I want’ and it’s embarrassing.

P.S sorry if they ‘they’ is annoying, I’m trying to maintain anonymity. It’s just one kid though.

I don’t know. I’m not a shouter naturally although I have raised my voice to get their attention a few times. Sometimes they say things and it sounds exactly like me so maybe I need to tune into things a bit more and see if they are imitating me. I’m finding it all overwhelming but they have been in childcare placement and school and no one has raised anything. But then kids are often on their best behaviours with others aren’t they?

Try social stories - can find books or online. That explains social situations. Can help get discussion going.

you can make your own too. Do you have Lego toys? Lego people? You can make a basic house, make the toilet. Put the mummy in there.

Why does the mummy go alone? What should you do while she’s in there?
why is the boy crying ?

Ive used for both typical and ND child. Very interesting to hear child’s version of events or hear what other kids say when doing a social story of “unkind words”

Yes, it sounds very similar to my 13 year old who is autistic & has adhd. The need for someone to be with him constantly, and wanting your attention to the exclusion of all other has been present all his life. He is better now older, but it can still be there.

The wanting stuff is also a common trait - it's the lack of filter, & compulsion to see it & want it. It's been a long road to counteract that. We still have to have a strict 'earning' of treats, but he is much better.

Predictability & telling them of what's planned will help you.

It's not an easy road. Wishing you the very best.

On their best behaviour = masking, which leads to meltdown when home as you are their safe space.

So if your child hit you, you'd hit them?

"Dont hit me" <smack>

What positive reinforcements do you think you are teaching your child by using that approach?

How many times is sufficient for you to decide that hitting them is ok?
At what age will you stop hitting them?

If you were cross with your wife/husband/friend - would you hit them too?

Both my children one adhd and one autistic, the school have been the ones highlighting and pushing for a diognosis.
There is a great book that really heloed with my adhd son called 123 magic.
But it actually did not helpnwith my autistic son.
Your local family centre will have some parenting courses too on parenting neurodivergent children. It might help give you some techniques and things to try, if your daughter is ND or not, the methods will give you some other ideas.
Things like visual timetables etc.

Yes this is what I was worried about. They’re so clingy at home too.

What happens when they do that, do you stop what you're doing? If you do then I guess they're learning that it works. But if you're consistent then I expect they will learn eventually. I've realised that a lot of parenting is a bit of a long game in that way.

This is really interesting, we do have Lego and such so I will give it a go and see what comes out. At school I have been told they’re very kind and share well. But outside of school they’re a little bugger for such things. I’ve tried rewarding kindness but they just forget about it.

I cant paste links for some reason but google 123 magic parenting book. It was well worth the 3 quid.

@Throwawayyyy sorry for a derail on your thread. You've had some great responses that I hope you find helpful. Parenting a kid can be hard, sometimes really challenging - particularly so if you've no prior experience of kids (younger siblings when you were a kid, friends kids etc) I hope you can figure out a solution that helps make you both happier. x

The hitting needs to be stopped for sure but at that age , my dd could be happily playing by herself, completely ignoring me , the minute I answered the phone she wanted my full attention.

I ignore them for a while until it’s impossible. I get down on their level to tell them to stop but often at that point the other adult excuses themselves and the situation is out of my hands. Once we’re removed from the situation I remind them, firmly that it’s unacceptable and that I am allowed to talk to who I want without interruption and that their behaviour is completely unacceptable. I tried to introduce the Bluey concept of placing a hand on mine then me covering theirs to let them know I know they’re waiting but it hasn’t happened yet.

Don’t apologise, I’ve ignored that person but I agree with you. And thank you very much. X

Some aspects of what you've mentioned sounds similar to my Twin 2 (I have twin girls, aged 7, both of whom are AuDHD; twin 2 has very challenging and oppositional behaviours).
Twin 2 HAS improved a lot between 4 and 7 and actually no longer hits/kicks/etc me on a regular basis and has become more regulated when we are out and about; she no longer kicks off as much when I 'dare to talk to someone else.
At home, I've always tried to keep things low demand, with indoor and outdoor play equipment (hanging bars, gymnastics frame, balance boards, trampolines etc) to help her manage her hyperactivity.
This year, FINALLY, I've actually managed to enlist her in 1-2-1 swimming lessons and one gymnastics class after school per week (which was totally impossible before, as she struggled so much and her behaviour was deplorable).
Doesn't sound like she is spoilt at all; sounds like a child who finds life challenging and whose resultant behaviour is challenging.
I know from looks and comments I had over the years that some people thought my twins were 'spoilt' or brats because of their behaviour.
I can't say Twin 2 is at all easy at 7 or a constant delight, but I'm very proud of her for all the progress she has made and for the way she faces the challenges her conditions bring her in daily living.

Thisnis lovely to hear. Did she make progress on her own or is she medicated or under any behavioural support?
Its interesting you mention swimming because we have done swimming lessons since they were young and they were awful, so embarrassing with the behaviour, but I kept going because swimming is so important to me for safety reasons and in the last month or two their behaviour has turned a corner and they’re actually participating and sort of listening! I do have to monitor them closely (I’m in the pool too) because if not they’re distracted and messing around but it hasn’t been an improvement! The feeling when someone excuses themselves and walks away because mine has kicked off is so humiliating, so I feel your pain.

You’ve touched on some play equipment, is there anything in particular that you’d recommend? We don’t have a big house or garden but they’ve got a climbing frame which they mostly ignore. Anything that yours really finds helpful?

I feel your pain here! My 4yo does similar except more just shouting! She's my 3rd though and I think that while stressful now, mine were all quite stroppy at 4, and they did move through phases. I think if you keep trying they eventually accept it. It may not be quick but I think just being consistent is key.

I also know what you mean about not knowing how what is potential ND and what isn't! I'm also ND and not sure yet about any of my daughters. But either way I think we parent the child in front of us. I don't think that much of what you're describing is unusual. I think many kids do the snack pestering and are impatient/ want the full attention of their parent and get frustrated. I'd just keep doing what you're doing really as it sounds like you're doing the right thing.

I don't think your child sounds spoilt, no. Spoilt is when they are naughty to get what they want because it works.

If I were you I would address the most pressing things (hitting and hissy fits) first. You really need to nip that in the bud ADHD or not. The fact you say you don’t really have a routine in the school holidays will definitely make it worse. My DD is a lot more chill than DS, so we didn’t really have that much of a routine with her, but DS has so much energy he needs it. He’s not ADHD I don’t think he’s just a boy and a bit more feral.

It’s hard to say if your child is spoiled based off one post, and I think only you and those around you know the real answer. Maybe ask someone who spends a lot of time with your child and who you know will shoot you straight? But I think all 4 year olds can be a bit self centred and bratty.

Yeah, shut the door and let them cry. If you do it every single time they will adjust. It's not cruelty, you're not actually harming them. You need to teach them that you also have needs and wishes and you don't always come last.

Thank you. I have asked family but they don’t see each other often. They have said not spoilt but very energetic. But then I don’t know how much I trust them to be honest really as they adore DC and don’t get to spend much time with them!

The hitting and the attention-demanding is a problem, the latter being so draining. I’m so tired and I feel like it’s because I can’t have my own headspace, we have to be together and holding hands and with each other and I need space and mental space, I recharge when I’m alone so they constant neediness is too much but nothing seems to change. I’m overwhelmed and I don’t know how to address it.

I mean, they are lovely and creative and funny and clever and I don’t want to sound negative about everything! My problem with routine is, say the summer holidays, we go and stay with family for a couple of weeks then we go away on our own (I work for myself so I can squeeze in my hours as and when I want to) and we don’t have clubs etc so I just don’t know how to maintain that routine.

If I’m brutally honest, I don’t really get parenting. Like, the day to day stuff. I see friends who seem to have it all worked out and I feel like I’m getting by on a. Wing and a prayer and I’ve only got one child.

You need to find the consequence that works for them. Every time you hit me, you will lose 5 minutes of TV time. Or whatever it is.

I find some consequences easy and others tough. So for example, if they’re playing up at bedtime they lose a book for every warning (we read 2-3 every night). The hitting one I find hard because I don’t know what the natural consequence is. I guess I could use tv as they do like tv. Maybe I need to settle on that and be consistent with it and see what happens.

I trialled medication with her last year and, within hours, she developed physical tics. Tried her on the extended/slow release. Exactly the same issue.
Could have tried non-stimulant, but the physical tics distressed her so much, she asked to not try another medication, which of course I supported (she can always revisit medication when she is older).
She has a lot of support in school (she has learning difficulties) as she has an EHCP. What has helped her behaviour here, has been around 75% 1-2-1 support during learning time and a heavily differentiated curriculum. She is also allowed regular 'movement' breaks and she has some 'sensory circuits' she does with 'her' TA.
I think the kindness, respect and understanding she (generally) receives from the 'adults' at school, as well as the targeted 'learning' interventions from her EHCP were the game changer.
At home, the one thing I found invaluable for her and her twin have been a spinning sensory chair and 'Gym1 - Deluxe Indoor Doorway Gym for Kids Playground Set - All in One Gym Set' (a doorway hanging bars that came with a rope ladder, rope swing, 'normal' swing, trapeze and gymnastics rings). Got it from Amazon when the twins had just turned 3 and it saved my sanity during the second Lockdown and on crap weather days.
You're welcome to PM me any time. I'm not expert, but muddling through with all three of us being AuDHD has definitely been an adventure!
With swimming, I tried lessons when the girls were 4 and, again, when they were 5, but Twin 1 was in her own world and it wasn't the right time and Twin 2 was too scared to try.
Fast forward to now, they've got a great swim teacher who sees them once a week and Twin 1 is flying (well, swimming!) and Twin 2 is able to get in and out and muddle along with swimming aids!
And, honestly, there have been so many occasions when I've been absolutely mortified by her behaviour (Twin 2), but she really has settled down (she's still an absolute whirlwind, who never stops, won't leave me alone and kicks off at the slightest thing, but she is also a sweet, kind, funny, bright kid and I genuinely enjoy her company more of the time these days).
Sorry, that turned into an essay!
X

In the world outside your house, the natural consequence of hitting is that the other person is quite likely to hit you back. I know it's MN heresy, but perhaps this is one of those rare times when a smack might be worth considering? There's a good chance you won't have to do it more than once.

That’s disturbing. Toddlers and young children learn through modelling our behaviour and if a parent hits them all it’s teaching them is that when people get angry it’s acceptable to hit/hurt others.