Am I being too overprotective?

[GwenSaturn]

DH and I have always had different approaches to parenthood but we’re struggling even more now the kids are a bit older and it’s causing conflict.

Here’s the latest one. DD, 12, friend at school has her invited to a sleepover at her dad’s house. It’s a new friendship and we’ve never even met the girl, let alone her dad! We don’t know where either of the parents live, who’s in the house, anything about them or who else is staying over. I said no, absolutely no way. DD was totally fine about this and admitted she was a bit apprehensive about staying somewhere she didn’t know anyway.

Then DH walks in the room and DD tells him about it. He says, yeah that’s fine, you can go. I was shocked! Obviously I explain all the reasons why I think she shouldn’t go but DH says we’ll invite the girl over to suss her out, get some info and it’ll all be fine. I think we need to get to know them over a few MONTHS not a few weeks. I don’t mind her going over there for a few hours but a sleepover so soon seems a big step. He says he doesn’t see what the big deal is. I’ve let her have sleepovers with families we know. I just don’t feel comfortable if I don’t know them.

I have reasons in my past to be cautious about letting my children stay over strangers houses, so I don’t know if this is clouding my judgement.

It just makes me feel like he just doesn’t care. Aren’t dads supposed to be protective over their girls?

AIBU?

I think you’re being OTT. Your daughter is 12 and I’m assuming capable of making a phone call to you if she’s not happy or doesn’t feel comfortable.

Friendships come and go at that age. It’s not like primary school where you get to know the other parents at the school gates. You are not going to get to know the girls’ parents over a few months; it just isn’t like that at secondary school.

I think he's right that you get to know them, find out the answers to the questions you have (where do they live, who else will be there etc) and then let her go.

Realistically, you're not going to know them any better after a few months than you will after a few weeks. She's more likely to be abused by one of the families that have won your trust over many years than a new family.

Make sure she's briefed on what to do if she's uncomfortable with anything and has a phone and then let her go.

I wouldn’t need months but I would need to have met the girl at least a couple of times, the address, phone number and to have at least had a conversation with the dad. I’m not sure how much security knowing someone for months or years really offers - CSAbusers are often charming and know how to make parents relax. I go more on how the kid seems and absolutely, at least one shorter visit first so my kid can get a feel and decide on the sleepover or if that needs to be at our house. I do this with any new friend, not exclusively a single dad family.

I'm with you. Not a chance.

I agree with your dh

And yes to phone and agreement about a code for pick me up NOW, eg ‘good night mummy’ (my kids don’t call me mummy) by text or call.

In secondary school I let my dc decide on sleepovers..
They surely have a phone if they want to come home?

There is no safe option, OP. That’s the hard thing. We let them take risks or we definitely harm their development/mental health in the long run. I’m sorry you’ve horrible experiences, your fears are totally understandable.

It’s not always easy to make a phone call if you feel uncomfortable in that situation though, especially if you’re only 12. She may not even recognise she’s in a difficult situation and even grown women often choose politeness over “making a fuss”.

I also think it’s odd that the girl’s Dad would even go straight in for a sleepover without suggesting DD comes over first, so she feels comfortable.

And how many women on here would feel comfortable sleeping in a man’s house who they didn’t know?

It's pretty normal to not know the parents of DCs friends in high school. Much bigger intake, not meeting at the school gates. Friendship groups change too. How do you plan on getting to know this family over months? Its not like you can start doing play dates with 12 year olds to get to know they're parents. Not many parents would have time for that and most teens would refuse it.
Mine had sleepovers with people I didn't know the parents of during high school. I got the address and phone number for the parents and told my DC to call or message me if they feel uncomfortable and need picking up.

OP, seeing dangers everywhere is actually not helpful at all to stay safe.

If you see dangers everywhere and preventatively avoid everything, you never learn to assess situations for what they are (some will be safe, some will not) and learn to recognise real danger.

Systematically dodging danger or risk actually makes you very vulnerable.

I think it can be hard to navigate when they're in secondary school. You're not always going to know they're friends unfortunately. Had a similar wobble with DS last week as he wanted to go to a friends for a sleep over for the first time. It was someone I'd heard mentioned a lot but only briefly seen and obviously didn't know the parents. I settled for getting the mums number before hand and checking all was ok with her.

I don't know if I'd feel differently if I had a daughter but I know i went to plenty of sleep overs as a teenager and my parents weren't ever too worried.

I think getting to know them over months is a bit much

Your DD was apprehensive and she’s 12, not 15. I think you’re correct to insist she visits for dinner etc first rather than go straight to a sleepover. Or at least you get the girl over to yours for a dinner/ sleepover first.

It’s all very well saying she’s got a phone but if she’s being pressured to stay and being told “this is how we do things here, relax” that’s difficult for a 12 year old to negotiate.

She doesn't have to phone, she can text. It's very easy to get a text away. Agree beforehand on a story e.g. if she texts you call and say there's been a family emergency and you need to pick her up asap so that she doesn't have to 'make a fuss'.

Why do you think she's not able to determine if she's comfortable or not? Do you think being overprotective generally has hindered her ability to judge her own feelings?

I very much doubt it's the Dad that has suggested the sleepover! I imagine the girls arranged it between them. If it was the Dad's idea then I agree that is odd!

I did it from starting secondary. One of my closest friends had a single dad.

this was before the days of mobile phones!

I never felt uncomfortable because I trusted my friend.

I think at secondary school it's normal for kids to go and hang out with friends their parents don't know. Often the kids live further away from eachother and obviously you aren't going to be mates with every set of parents in an entire comprehensive school year.

To me it seems too much to ban her from going. Realistically what do you think might happen? Do you really think it's likely she'll come to harm at her pals house?

Obviously ask for the address and say she must not go anywhere alone without checking with you first. There's nothing wrong with swapping numbers with the dad or step mum, whoever's house it is. But to deny her to go seems somewhat unfair.

I think a lot of children al secondary school will have friends where the parents don’t know each other. Unless I knew the friend from primary school, my parents only knew the parents to say hi to for a couple of minutes as they picked me up from somewhere.

That’s not to say I don’t understand your concern. I think you’d be reasonable to say she goes over for a few hours first, before arranging a sleepover. But I’m just not sure what you’re envisaging this “get to know them over months” to look like?

There’s a middle way between the two of you.

firstly when she does go for a sleepover make sure she can text you a specific message (eg the eagle has landed) and then you phone the parents and say family emergency we need her. That way she can always leave without fuss.

you do need to commit to getting her though.

realistically you are not going to get to know the parents at secondary school. They don’t pick up from school and friendships can be pretty fluid at that age.

it might be an idea to invite the girl over after school just so you can meet her in advance.

at 12 some parents will allow sleepovers some won’t. The older they get the more they need to spread their wings though - there will be camps away from you for school trips, guides, if she does D of E at 14 she will be sleeping on a campsite.

it would be unreasonable never to allow her to sleep away from her family. It’s helpful for her development to learn to handle these situations in a controlled environment so that when she is an adult and goes to uni she is used to managing on her own at least some of the time.

“If you see dangers everywhere and preventatively avoid everything”

Wow! That’s a bit of a reach! Where did you get “we avoid everything” from my post? I specifically said she has had other sleepovers.

My DD has gone to plenty of people’s houses and had many sleepovers before. She does karate and has climbed a mountain and done caving, etc. She’s not sheltered from life! But she’s feel’s apprehensive about this, as do I. As another poster said, she’s 12, not 15.

She’s already done two school trips and Guides trip sleeping away from home! Her first when she was only 9! I knew and trusted the teachers, so it was fine. She’s also had many many sleepovers at other people’s houses.

Some big assumptions in these responses which is not helpful. 😳

OP, glad to see you regained perspective compared to your FP, stay safe.

It's fine to say not just yet. For them just to go to each others houses in the daytime for a while. It's fine for you to say no, not ever. It's ok to be wary.

Personally, I would want to know more, for them to pop round to each other's houses in the daytime a few times. I'd want to know if anyone else was staying over for the sleepover. Have a sense of the family through what the kids are saying, because you're not going to get to know parents like you did when your DD was at primary school. Is there a lodger? A weird older brother? Does the dad smoke weed? Does he get drunk? Are there a succession of random people in the house? Does it feel safe or chaotic?

People are suggesting that your DD can phone or message you if she feels uncomfortable. That's fine and sensible to suggest as an emergency solution to get her out of a bad situation. But it's not ideal is it? It depends on her first feeling uncomfortable, then recognising that's it's not ok, and being brave enough to make a call/send a message. It's actually a lot to expect of a 12 year old girl, especially if they're on the polite/people pleasing/quiet/naive side.

I don't allow my DD (13) to go her friend's dad's house. She can stay at the friend's mum's house. Or they can come here. My DH, DD and I all get an "off vibe" about this dad, as well as knowing about his drug use, so we made this choice. But without taking some time before saying yes to a sleepover we'd have allowed DD to be in a situation that is not safe in our opinion

Edited to add that I re read your first post and saw the concern you have about your own history possibly clouding your judgement. I'm very sorry you went through what ever you did, but you sound very balanced actually in your posts here. You are clearly aware of the potential dangers and have your eyes open. I would say that most of the responses to here you are naive. And I'm speaking as a person with no history of childhood abuse. Nothing clouding my judgment. I think you're right and very sensible

Attitudes to sleepovers - and their supposed risks - seem to have shifted leaps and bounds very recently. My kids are only 10-15 years older than yours and I don’t remember anyone being concerned about sleepovers when they were that age.

In fact, I’ve sent my kids off to foreign countries to stay with families I’ve never met before - when dd1 was 14, she did a two-week residential French course in Nice, met a lovely Norwegian girl, and then days after she got home, the girl invited her to come and stay with her family in Bergen! So we booked the flights and she jetted off and had an incredible experience - the girls are still fast friends today and try to meet up somewhere in Europe at least once a year. I hate to think that I might have deprived her of that experience and that friendship because of my own paranoia, had I shared the current prevailing view that letting your child stay with strangers is beyond the pale.

Thank you! I really appreciate your reply.