About cyclists in this whatsapp group

[OrnateGecko]

This is not an anti-cyclist post per se, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts!

I am a member of a very big local whatsapp group that was formed to campaign for improved street safety in our area. The council is rubbish at maintaining road signs etc and there have been a number of bad road accidents in the past year, including a fatality. I feel really strongly about improving safety especially as I have young kids. This group was initially great as we co-ordinated a big protest, have campaigned for councillors to listen etc.

But the group seems to have become a focus for a handful of mainly keen cyclist men who are clearly very anti-car, and use it to share anything that makes life harder for drivers. The council is proposing parking charges locally and a number of small businesses are upset about this. These guys are posting in the group mocking the businesses for their concerns. I feel like I can't post anything any more as actually I do need my car - we live 1.5 miles from school (our catchment school) and I work in healthcare so cannot work flexibly; I need to drive to get kids to school/nursery and then to work on time. I also have to drive for work (home visits).

I know I should just leave the whatsapp group but actually I really want to be involved in local campaigning for improved street safety - which is what this was meant to be about. Do I make an offshoot group that isn't so anti-car? Or stick my head above the parapet and point out that the cycling blokes are alienating boring old mums like me - who want to be able to drive around at a low speed, safely park and for our kids not to risk getting squished by an HGV... ?

assuming you are asking the question in good faith, the cyclists are pushing for changes to access that would impact different groups differently. It would of course have been super duper for anyone fit enough and with the time to cycle.

She's already said it's a 20min commute in the car. Presuming she can cycle with her kids (?3 of them - she's got a school and nursery run) and deposit them at 8am when childcare opens, and be back on the road for say 8.05, how does a 20min drive turn into a 20min cycle to get her to work on time?

My commute is 20mins too. Mainly A roads. No bus but an OK cycle route. I did once cycle when my car was being serviced. It took me just under an hour.

rhe need for a car in modern society is real but you can’t really want to improve safety and fail to see that the vast majority of accidents and fatalities are caused by car drivers

and we have a general health crisis which is made much worse by the poor self care of the population rushing around in cars , failing to eat well as exercise ( as a whole )

so we do need to move society away from car reliance

your need to get kids to school and the to work is probably true for say 6 years out of your 40+ year working life ( once they hit high school they should be making their own way there )

and if you have been knocked off a bike or had a few terrifying incidents your tolerance of the car brigade drops rather quickly

The cyclists are looking at a city that works for one kind of person. They are healthy and able to walk or cycle and likely have the option of public transit for when those are not good choices. Not all of us are in the same position. You can be an advocate for a city that works for everyone.

Which is exactly why you need to stay in the group to share your perspective. Women are far less likely to cycle for example but also the poorest women are far less likely to have use of the family car (if there’s one) so public transport and active travel infrastructure is very much a feminist issue. Voices like yours matter. And more important too in an ageing society when people can no longer drive safely there are alternatives for them as well.

nobody is saying you should only use a car or only cycle, but many people do pop down to the shops in a car for a pint of milk, or do the school run in a car. For some, and sounds like tou are one of these people it’s not safe to go a different way because the infrastructure is made for cars not people. Of you need your car the whole day for many trips. But when our school was trying to reduce traffic in an area with safe walking routes and some decent cycle infra and public transport most parents were aghast. How is Jonny going to bring cricket kit or his cello to school. Well he doesn’t bring those every day does he, so if he doesn’t get driven 60% of the time that’s a reduction in traffic and I think that’s what people don’t get.

same with driving to the shops, most peoples don’t need to for to a large store every day but do because habit. Whereas for top up shops a local high st is more convenient and keeps the high st alive. You wouldn’t buy everything there as it’s more expensive for sure. But if we don’t use it then it’ll all be out of town retail parks which actually leave anyone without a car out.

we got rid of our car 3 years ago and haven’t missed it. We were regular cyclists anyway and never drove to the supermarket or school. Online big shop, bike or walk to local shops or the large Tesco as needed but we live in a city with decent transport so that’s viable for us. Not everyone can do this. But good decisions can only be made if a wide variety of people contribute and consider ways things could be different rather than what they are in the habit of now.

Good walking and cycling infrastructure benefits everyone. Kids, the elderly, reduces congestion, air and noise pollution and is a fraction of the cost of more roads. But good infrastructure only happens when it’s not just the most confident or loud cyclists that contribute to the debate and alienate those who might want to cycle or walk more of it were safer.

How do you cycle with a toddler in tow?

Loads of people have child seats or those Dutch bikes with a big cart at the front for the kids

Not just that, but theres no way in hell I would cycle on UK roads, not even 'quiet' ones. We use cycle paths or trails as leisure. I would never commute that way

If you want to put your child in danger by sticking them on the back of your bike, that's up to you. Very irresponsible parenting IMO.

I agree. I shiver when I see parents riding around with children in seats on bikes. They should be outlawed.

Yup, I don't know why, but this seems to be the case.

I know lots of people who use a bike to commute, but it's a very particular sub-group of almost exclusively male jerks who get involved in particular kinds of biking and act like assholes. And then hide behind all the normal bikers to claim moral superiority.

What a stupid thing to say - cycle to home visits? Jesus.

Lots of people can't cycle anyway - I'm quite fit but after childbirth injuries there is no way I am spending hours on a bike.

You would need a little trailer for three kids like the OP has.

And then you are into a bike that is very heavy - even adding one child makes a difference.

I know a woman who bikes with three, but she has a (very expensive) electric bike. There is now way she could manage in what is a very hilly city without.

So now you are talking about very large amounts of money.

I struggle with dizziness/vertigo, balance problems etc. No way am I safe on the roads

Depends on the age of kids. All sorts of options. Trailer for tiny kids. Tag along for small kids or seat but honestly a kid of 3/4 could cycle on their own bike if there’s decent infrastructure. My kid did to school, we only had a trailer for the dog. From 1-3 my kid went on the back of our bikes. Yes on the road and yes it was fine. But not high speed or A roads.

As others have said, next time someone posts an "anti-car" sentiment just good naturedly remind everyone the initial goal of the group which was to make the streets safer for everyone. But live by your principles and when making suggestions consider whether they work for cyclists too. If that doesn't work or becomes too toxic a space your idea of a new group is a good one but perhaps make it an offline group? WhatsApp groups have a tendency to spiral IMHO!

We all need stuff delivered to the shops, the schools, etc however we travel about personally. If you looked into most cyclists' lives you'd find they've delegated the vehicle driving to others in many cases.

OP, sounds like the campaign for better bus services could be a better focus if that's what would really improve options for many. That is probably more specific and achievable than a vague and subjective aim for "travel safety".

I think it's pretty clear from the OPs post that the children aren't triplets and as a family they use pre-school /nursery childcare to enable the adults to work.

Reception to Y6 is actually 7 years at primary school mininum but there's potentially 3 or more years of nursery/preschool before that so let's call it 10 years per child for ease.

Assuming 2 year age gaps between all the children that's around 14 years of doing the school and nursery run over three children - 14 years or more out of your 40 year career

Have you ever done the school and nursery run yourself or are you just here to berate the women who do?

I highly reccomend reading invisible women like many others here have suggested.

When I said I was upset they had removed bus lanes to accommodate cycle lanes on my next door group, I was piled upon by cyclists. They don't care about anything other than cycling. And it doesn't matter what evidence you provide. My adult daughter has epilepsy and we need to drive her places but that doesn't count apparently.

Well, fortunately, the influence of that kind of cyclist on policy is limited (as is the influence of people who spout off on many other topics...)

Best to try influencing councillors and your MP I think and not worrying what Rapha Man thinks.

Of course it matters.

That's even one of the TfL slogans I think - every journey matters.

It's important to be able to match the situation to the right travel option.

I use public transport a lot but there are some times I get the car out, either to move large or heavy stuff or because the public transport journey would take 2-3 times as long and sadly I would just have to not do the thing if I had no car.

I am lucky to be able to afford train tickets though. They're not cheap!

Neither would I. It isn't safe.