About cyclists in this whatsapp group

[OrnateGecko]

This is not an anti-cyclist post per se, but I'd be interested in people's thoughts!

I am a member of a very big local whatsapp group that was formed to campaign for improved street safety in our area. The council is rubbish at maintaining road signs etc and there have been a number of bad road accidents in the past year, including a fatality. I feel really strongly about improving safety especially as I have young kids. This group was initially great as we co-ordinated a big protest, have campaigned for councillors to listen etc.

But the group seems to have become a focus for a handful of mainly keen cyclist men who are clearly very anti-car, and use it to share anything that makes life harder for drivers. The council is proposing parking charges locally and a number of small businesses are upset about this. These guys are posting in the group mocking the businesses for their concerns. I feel like I can't post anything any more as actually I do need my car - we live 1.5 miles from school (our catchment school) and I work in healthcare so cannot work flexibly; I need to drive to get kids to school/nursery and then to work on time. I also have to drive for work (home visits).

I know I should just leave the whatsapp group but actually I really want to be involved in local campaigning for improved street safety - which is what this was meant to be about. Do I make an offshoot group that isn't so anti-car? Or stick my head above the parapet and point out that the cycling blokes are alienating boring old mums like me - who want to be able to drive around at a low speed, safely park and for our kids not to risk getting squished by an HGV... ?

I know a lot of keen cyclists. I have never, ever seen or heard any of the female ones behaving in this manner. Sadly, it is not about the mode of transport but the sense of entitlement.

It’s highly relevant. Women, cyclists or otherwise, don’t tend to take over a group and crowd everyone else out without even noticing. It’s male socialisation and it’s a problem.

How on earth do you know it’s “easily walkable” for OP and her family? It wouldn’t be for us. Two of us are disabled and one starts work at 7am.

That's not the issue though is it? It's that she then continues to her healthcare job, presumably based at some kind of clinic, then visits patients at home. I don't think I'd be terribly impressed if my appointment was late or my elderly or disabled relative didn't get a visit because the HCP was attempting to do it on foot or by bike (possibly needs equipment too?)

Who would like to lay money that keyboard warrior cyclists actually own cars, that their "boring old wives" use to schlepp the children and shopping about in??

Room in the group for both viewpoints surely?

Are you able to block members so you don't see their posts or responses as you can on Facebook.

I do this regularly on groups where I get fed up of certain topics. I know it's not stopping individuals saying things but what I don't actually see, I don't get irritated in any way

1.5 miles is walkable in a city or town. But not in a more rural location. Ironically I walk less now I have moved back to my rural home county and have given up cycling completely! I'm also a community healthcare worker.
We had a similar thing in out local town some ground wanted more shared road spaces but no cars. This would mean that there would only be a few ways to get into the town and lots of people do like to come from surrounding towns by car so it would completely kill the town centre. There are already a few places in the area that I have stopped going because parking has got more difficult so it does make a difference. I'd love to cycle again but there is never any talk of making cycle ways to my nearest town ( 6miles away) or my nearest village (1.5 miles away). I know the answer is getting involved but then it's the anti car lobby that puts me off ( like it has OP). They also tend to be the richer ppl moved in from London who want to put there own agenda and politics in place! Which complicates the local community politics.
OP I would maybe see if maybe 2 WhatsApp groups are needed? Road safety is one thing and improving walking and cycling infrastructure another?

There are some very extreme anti car cyclists in some of my parent what’s app groups. We walk our kids home as often as we can but I have to take them in the car to get to work (several miles away) on time after drop off. I just don’t engage with any anti- car lobbying they do and remind them that not everyone is able to do every journey by bike with kids in tow.

How does she get to work on time after walking her kids to school and walking home to get her car? And how is she supposed to do home visits for work on foot?

Its not.

Its highly relevant because of the way that systems around us, particularly road, public transport, social community resources etc are designed for and by men. So theres very little consideration of how low paid workers (largey women), carers (largely women), people who have disabilities but dont have blue badges (largely women), single parents (largely women) etc etc, little consideration of how those people's needs are met. Because they're largely women

It's not irrelevant at all.

Women are far more likely to do trips involving multiple stops- school, nursery, supermarket, popping in on elderly relatives etc combined with their commute. Men are statistically more likely to have a single start point and a single destination. This is why it's so important to a diverse range of people working on street design etc as different types of people see things differently.

I think both parties are right in this debate, and it's a difficult balance to get right. Fundamentally we need to reduce our car use to bring emissions down (and improve our health by travelling more actively), and putting measures in place to penalise drivers alongside improvements in infrastructure to support families cycling to school etc are really positive things on paper. However as OP has pointed out, her journeys can be more complex if she has multiple stops. And it's also important that reducing parking outside shops, for example, doesn't impact on disabled people who might need to get close to their end destination.

She needs it for work so she has to use it.

They're just a bit tone deaf. I think you do need a bit more tolerance though in recognising that your problem is only that they don't agree with you, while you might unintentionally also post about policies they don't like. I'm eye rolling HARD at similar local complaints about parking charges in my area, it's a great initiative to get extra revenue while reducing the appalling driving and parking at school drop-off and pick-up that's problematic, and frankly nobody is driving miles for those particular local businesses. Those complaining about the parking charges in our group are all super aggrieved like you are, but they are as tone deaf as your cyclists. There's no need to comment disagreeing in these situations unless you have a major clarification to add, certainly it doesn't need anyone stroppily leaving or throwing others out of whatsapp groups, just appreciate you learned there is more than one viewpoint, and roll your eyes at the sillier comments.

In the book 'Invisible Woman' by Caroline Criado Perez, she explains how men's and women's journeys often differ, and how most societies cater for men.

Women tend to have more complicated journeys, involving dropping off and picking up, doing chores etc. These journeys often involve getting to places off the main transit routes.

Men, on the other hand, often just go straight from a to b and back again.

When I was being bullied on the next door group, I noticed a lot of this from the male cyclists. They seemed to have all the time they needed to eg cycle into central London and home again. One actually recommended getting the tube then getting off and walking along the river (which takes about an hour), like their time was all their own.

Men have on average 5 hours more leisure time per week than women. And these cyclists show it!

Its a 30 min walk, doable for most,,, except of course if your route is on a non pavemented road side, or without street lighting, or with a pavement so narrow it doesnt fit a buggy or shopping trolley on it, or with such a camber to it and unevenness that someone like me with balance problems struggles to walk along.

And then of course having done that doable and easy walking with a child in tow, your next stop is at your place of work, which is perhap s5 miles away, or 10 or more. Ok, so you walk back again for 30 mins to collect the car, but now you're going to be late for work?

Not to mention OP needs to visit clients for her job, as do I, not possible without a car.

‘Arf at the pp using racism as a comparator for criticism of some cyclists. 🙄

Sadly, OP, people need to have quasi-religious obsessions these days. Telling other people how to live their lives and campaigning and arguing to put restrictions on them is the hallmark. Cycling is a notable one. It gives these people a ‘good’ cause to inflict on other people. It’s all about self-importance, ultimately.

I’d stay in the group and point out that money and mobility matter to people and they can go and adjust their gears somewhere else.

Yes exactly this - I've timed it out, and it's an uphill walk with a buggy and 2 walking kids. Earliest I can drop them to breakfast club and nursery is 8am, which I do (nursery is near school at least) and then a 20min drive from there to work which starts at 8.30. Ironically, when I was my eldest kids age (10) it was safe for me to walk a similar distance to school with my younger sibling by myself. There is no way I'd allow my kids to do that because they'd have to cross 3 big roads, one where a woman got run over by an HGV last year, and the council made the lollipop man redundant.

One of the things I was hoping for was that we could campaign for better public transport - there are no local buses, only a couple that take you on the main road into the city. Getting a bus to work takes me 1.5hrs. But there seems to be little interest in that from the group.

As others have said, it started as improving street safety but is now more of a promoting active travel thing, which is grand and which I largely support (I was a big supporter of installing a cycle lane in a formal dual carriageway here) but it just feels like the focus is very anti-driver now. Most cyclists I know are drivers too and are not unreasonable!

I do largely agree with you - but that £2 turns into £20 a week as I have to do the same on the way home, 5 days a week. I'm going to have to trim the fat somewhere and am definitely not going to be making any more spontaneous stops in the village on the way home from somewhere else. We will probably still walk up there at the weekends, which we currently do. But for my main shop, it probably is the push factor that will make me go "well I better just go to Tesco on my lunch break" instead.

My impression is that these men (and they are all men but I can refer to them in the non-binary if people prefer) have very flexible jobs with a lot of WFH. They do seem to do school runs with cargo bikes. I think they might struggle with the idea that £20 a week will make a significant difference to some of us. My car is an NHS lease EV so I know I have it good from that perspective.

I used to drive my DD to school, drop her off then continue on to work, doing home visits to house bound patients, and clinics in rural satellite surgeries.
I got so fed up with being berated about not walking to school, not cycling, not using public transport and even more annoyed at my child being nagged about it. They used to give stickers to the "walk to school" kids. Not everyone can manage without a car.

We have a similar vocal group in our city (Cambridge). They push bikes first, which they are entitled to do, but they have ZERO concern for anyone else. Stand with ground. I lost tolerance when I pointer out how their ideas would disproportionately impact women, women with small children, disabled people and the elderly. The man literally said he didn't care. Like the men who pushed through the Yokarta principles, they simply don't care about or consider they need to consider other view points.

Cycle?

Why does cycling impact women?

I recently moved near to a large-ish village a few miles outside a big town in Surrey. The pedestrianised centre of the town is dying…more shops closed than open. But the many (mostly independent) shops in the village are thriving. And they’re proper shops too - grocers, newsagents, a chemist - not just coffee shops. I’m sure this is down to the common sense fact that there is plenty of free parking. However, there are also great places to leave a bike, if that’s how you travel. There are road calming measures all around, and a really good bus service. It is possible to accommodate everyone.

Could you get your shopping delivered?