To think that parents get to make decisions on their own time

[boymum1111]

currently battling with ex wife wanting to dictate all childcare arrangements and activities for children on Dads time. Court order in place finalised in February stipulating contact arrangements. No safeguarding concerns, children are all happy and well cared for. She won't stop causing arguments and wanting a say in what we do at weekends and after school. How can we stop this? when DH ignores her he gets accused of being uncooperative and not working together for the children. He has PR so it's up to him but she has issue with everything, what they eat, what they wear, where we go with them, who picks them up from nursery and school. She won't leave us alone and is involving the children now telling them she knows what's best for them and they're missing out on so much. Lots of emotional manipulation and guilt tripping. Bloody nightmare!

Unless you're neglecting the DC or putting them in danger then their DM can't legally dictate what happens on their DF time. Is their certain things she doesn't like them to do?

Is it aftershool clubs that they want to go but you can't facilitate? I don't think there is enough information here to answer.

Can you go into more detail?

I think it’s reasonable for mum for expect dad to facilitate swimming lessons and extra curriculars that the dc want to do and are already paid for. It’s also reasonable to expect they are picked up by dad at least some of the time, fed a moderately healthy diet taking into account any dietary requirements, and dressed in clothes that fit them.

It’s not reasonable for the mum to dictate that dad should take them to the most expensive soft play, or that they can never be picked up by yourself or another family member, or are never taken to McDonald’s, or have to wear Gucci clothing.

What matters is the childen - if they want to do activities and see friends and go to parties it’s unreasonable not to support them

if she needs you to do some of the admin - replace a pair of shoes - well that’s also reasonable

He needs to reply to each request with the same phrase until she gives up.

Something short and to the point like, 'I will decide on that'.

Devils in the detail. You can't really sign a child up for a class and then they can't go every other week. Life just doesn't work like that. I've had a lot of issues over the years with my ex not valuing the kids' as independent entities with their own interests and just expecting them to miss things or drop out for his convenience. Ideally these things should be agreed in advance between both parents but it depends on the time split and dynamics. Top priority though should be the childrens' development and hobbies, not point scoring.

The other parent doesn't get to decide what the kids do when they're with the other parent. I think if there's a club or sports team or something that the kids love doing, then certainly it's reasonable to say 'You'll need to take DS/DD to their football/swimming/gymnastics lesson on Saturday', but no, she shouldn't be deciding what they wear, who picks them up from school, where you take them on a day out, what they have for tea etc. It's up to the parent who has the child at the time to decide those things.

There's another thread at the moment where someone's ex-husband wants to be able to have a say in what house the OP rents and what childminder she chooses. Everyone has correctly told her that being the child's father doesn't mean he gets an equal say in what the child does when he's with her.

If it’s a weekly club at a weekend, parents do both need to make it happen whoever’s weekend it is.

Yes… but both parents should agree to it before they sign up. I doubt the mother would appreciate OP’s partner unilaterally saying “I’ve signed DC up for this, it’s every Saturday, and you have to do it regardless”

To a point. It would be wholly unreasonable to sign dc up to clubs that run when the other parent has work commitments for example.
you wouldn’t sign your dc up for something you couldn’t facilitate so you can’t go around signing them up for things that you can do but the other parent can’t.

They are missing out though if you don't take them to any activities. I've got friends where their kids can't go to any clubs because the other parent is low effort.

It depends really
It seems pretty unlikely that she is randomly dictating insane things.
from my own experience my dc's dad claims I dictate what he does on his time etc in reality I expect him to take ds to his football club and other ds to his swimming lesson and to not let them unsupervised on the internet all day and for him to actually get out of bed to look after them before lunchtime.

I think some of you have misunderstood and got quite defensive which is quite telling, this isn't about extra curricular activities or birthday party's / clubs. I'm talking about day to day parental responsibilities. She wants to plan the children's activities on Dh time, ie they need to go swimming this weekend (not a club) or they must have a quiet weekend after a busy week at school, must not shower or bathe them too often, must be in bed by 7, sends clothes for them to wear that we don't need, (not allowed to wear crocs we buy) children not allowed pudding, grandparents not allowed to collect from school / nursery.

And for clarity we have 2 of our own children that are healthy, well fed and thriving will all sorts of school clubs and play dates. Life is full on and we manage well. All the children are very happy . And to add yes mum has signed them up for something every weekend without prior discussion and already booked clubs in the summer holiday for them on Dh's time without discussion which we now have to navigate and organise our entire family around. It's exhausting-I'm a mum too and feel like she's calling the shots in our home. We end up doing things separately at times because of things our children want to do clash with things she's either booked for them or got them excited about. She will not facilitate any clubs like brownies in the village where we live that fall on her days though so we have double standards. Children have told us that we're not their 'real' family and Dh doesn't love them like she does. So yes there is more to it and there are more details.

I was hoping someone might be able to point me towards some relevant legislation or guidance to support Dh's parental rights during his contact. There isn't anything I can find legally as it's pretty
much a given that the parent that is responsible for them makes decisions about how that time is spent and what is in the children's best interests. And again-there are no safeguarding concerns whatsoever.

Well, she can't make him do what she wants so he is going to have to ignore her I suppose.

You need to suggest that your DH and his exW engage in mediation to iron out these issues.

The unilateral signing up for activities that the other party is then obliged to bring the children to/ from is not on at all. All activities that will take place during the other parent's parenting time need to be discussed beforehand, the cost shared, and each party's transport and kitting out obligations agreed to.
I had a clause in my visitation/ custody agreement that addressed this after exH unilaterally signed one of the DCs up for a sport camp that required me to provide a taxi service.

Dictating bedtimes - hmm.
There are many nuances to this.
Going against one parent's wishes and the children's usual routine just because you can or in a spirit of 'one in the eye for her (ha!)' is not on.
Letting children stay up way beyond a normal bedtime just to play Disney dad or mum is not on.
Insisting another household follow the 7pm rule just to be controlling is not on either. There needs to be flexibility within reason (7-8pm would be acceptable, but no later than 8).
If there is a genuine dispute about what bedtime is best for the children, there needs to be a way to discuss this.
Same goes for diet - don't be a dick goes both ways.
Again - mediation is the way to go here.

Disparaging the other parent and/ or step parent - HUGE NO.
If this happens, it needs to stop.
Mediation is needed here - and any parent engaging in disparaging of the other needs to be reminded that the family courts take parental alienation very seriously. I insisted on having a clause in my visitation / custody agreement specifically dealing with this. My exH was not to speak ill of me either to the DCs or to others in their presence/ earshot.

Forbidding grandparents access - unless this works both ways, or unless a grandparent is unfit to be around the children for whatever reason, I can't see this getting any kind of support from a mediator.

Essentially, your H and his exW need to sit down and hash all of this out, and an experienced mediator will identify personality issues or undercurrents and help both parties to agree on what is best for the children - and please bear in mind that this won't necessarily mean what makes your household run smoother.

There may have to be some compromise on your part, but please go into mediation in a spirit of good faith, keeping hurt and frustration well under control.

There's no legislation here that you can fall back on. We are talking about the ability of two adults to behave themselves even though they hate each other/ parted ways for excellent reasons, with the best interests of the children in mind.

The court has decided that both are fit parents, so that will be the starting point of mediation, and it will be necessary for each party to accept and acknowledge the fitness of the other. An adversarial stance is not the way to approach this. The welfare of the children and the strength of their relationship with both of their parents has to come first, always.

I can sense your frustration here - your family unit is suffering from the intrusion. My strong advice to you is not to fan flames of discord, to encourage collaboration and good faith communication. Please urge your H in the strongest terms to pursue mediation.

Yes i will but they've literally just come out of court in Feb. They were both told to be adults and that each parent is free to make their own plans and decisions on their time with the children. The order itself is very black and white this day with Mum, this day Dad and split holidays down the middle. Dh was adamant that once he had everything in writing and legal-that she would have to stop, he's done great putting boundaries in place but she just keeps on pushing. It's been pretty high conflict and communication is through a parenting app. She sent 150 messages last month, if he doesn't answer within say 10mins he gets another one and so on. She thinks he should answer her immediately as it's regarding the children, not thought that he might be in the middle of something with one of ours!

This is all why they ended up in court because he was only allowed them when she said which changed as and when she felt like it. We also have had fabricated illnesses with contact being withheld so they can be home with mum (where they belong) or attend multiple doctor's appointments, they've gone through tests at hospital all with them being officially diagnosed with a 'cold' or 'stomach bug' - all common childhood illnesses that are blown well out of proportion. We can't prove any disparaging remarks and i don't think Dh is in a rush to go back to court anytime soon after self representing up against her barrister. He achieved 50/50 but the court didn't go with what he thought would be the best arrangement for them, (same days or 4433) it's a complicated schedule with lots of transitions to fit around the children's previous 'status quo'. Not so important when she wants to go on a cruise with a new boyfriend for 2 weeks though they can come to us and we get a peaceful couple of weeks off from this nightmare 😅

just a quick one about bedtimes, they're literally all in bed by 7:30 -8 on a weekday (youngest is 7) and at weekends we let them all stay up a bit later Saturday night because we go out for dinner or movies / see family etc. And that's up to us as the adults-parents-caregivers. Like i said there are no safeguarding issues here

I'm a parent & a step-parent. My DD went to her dad's for years & stayed every 2nd weekend & my step-sons live with us 3/7 days. Each house has different rules & tbh nothing we can do about it. Unfortunately we don't have great co-parenting on either side. I would personally ignore the nit picking comments of bedtimes etc. booking activities on your time - if it benefits the kids & you can make it work then go for it. If it doesn't suit them politely decline her request. But accept if there are any parenting decisions on her side you disagree with, you also won't be able to give feedback although to be fair sounds like it's her way or no way

Do they, though? I’d say the parent with the child gets to decide what they do.

I think he needs to just withdraw from so much contact with her; there are contact apps that you can use for this kind of thing or he just silences notifications and checks when it’s convenient for him so he doenst feel inundated or badgered all the time. It takes practice as he won’t be used to it and I know some people will say what if there’s an emergency but that’s relatively rare.
He needs to only reply to what is essential and not to essentially her interference. In terms of the law just telling her he has PR and will make his own decisions is enough and he needs to not get drawn into debate on it.
Broadly speaking High conflict exs can only be that way if you engage in it

@Apksbdvyes that's good advice thanks, he's turned notifications off and if it was a real emergency she would call.

l@dddilemmathanks and yes. I think we need to take a step back, he has the court order now so that's essentially the boss. I'm going to look at holidays and plan something myself (holidays in the court order are pretty much a given as both parents encourage travel) thank goodness !

If you have 50-50, then bedtimes need to be consistent.
This is where the parents really have to cooperate, and as adults, your H and his exW need to sit down and put the children first, not prioritise how these children fit into your schedule or how she can disrupt your routine.

Different bedtimes for the children from one week to the other is frankly ridiculous, and I'm sorry but the parents need to get their arses kicked over the silly games they're playing.

The court order doesn't mean he can do what he wants and it doesn't mean she can do what she wants either.

I'm getting a strong impression here of two alleged adults playing guerilla warfare, with the children paying the price.

The issues that are not covered by the court order need to be hashed out in good faith by both of the parents, and agreements reached and adhered to.
Bedtimes
Activities - discuss beforehand: no unilateral decisions
Grandparent access
Type and frequency of communication

Possession of the children is not nine tenths of the law here.

Mediation is the way to go. I strongly urge it.

So she has a boyfriend and they do stuff together. Your H has a partner and a new family. You're even.

Stop the hostility and the sniping.

Go to mediation - not back to court but to mediation, where they can agree on the rules of engagement going forward, as they seem to be locked in combat despite separation and separate households.

Agree on consistent bedtimes for these unfortunate children.
Take them to their weekend activities for now and make sure these things are discussed and agreed on before committing.
Come to some compromise about grandparent access.