To expect more from DH around the home?

[CMRE]

I am going to try and add everything I can to the OP so apologies if it drags on a bit.

DH and I have been together 12 years, lived together for 10. He has always, always been messy. Initially (pre-children, and living in a flat) I don’t think I noticed it as much or as badly, as I am really tidy and was just always clearing things away as we went. I just don’t think I noticed how much of the mess was his.

Anyway, cut to today - we have two young children, the eldest is just 7. Both in primary school. We both work full time. The kids cling to me like glue and I am without a doubt the default parent. I keep an eye on their clothes and shoes upsizing when needed, I deal with all school comms, deal with their clubs outside of school, remember the homework and library book dates, sort all gifts for parties yada yada - you get it, I do sodding everything. Mental load is all mine. All DH is expected to do is his share of drop offs and pick ups, and the occasional food shop (which he will always, always ask me for a list for - if I don’t send him one he comes back with a few days worth of crap or even things I’m intolerant to, and expects me to be over the moon).

But along with this his messiness is just out of control, and I don’t have the time (or the sodding inclination) to deal with it anymore. I’m just so done with it. He leaves food wrappers on the couch, leaves his shoes and clothes literally wherever he takes them off, there’s 2-day old coffee still sat in the cafetière. He mows the lawn and then just leaves the cut grass everywhere rather than collect it up, so we’ve got it growing all over the garden. Doesn’t clean the sink after brushing his teeth or the shower when he’s done, ever. Never tidies; all the tidying and cleaning in the house is still on me - once I asked him to hoover downstairs as we were in a rush for people arriving and he didn’t know how to turn it on.

It’s becoming a massive massive issue. Admittedly I have just always done it, but I have tried so many times now to talk to him about it and it goes nowhere. He becomes defensive and tries to somehow deflect back to me. But I am so, so sick of it now. He had today off quite randomly as he had to work the Bank Holiday so I just asked if he could tidy up a bit once he’d dropped the kids to school - popped downstairs (WFH) at 2pm and he’s done nothing. Actually nothing. He’s just sat on his phone. His excuse - just too tired after some busy days at work. It’s all kicked off and once again he’s deflected to me - he feels under appreciated by me for the things he does do because he took the kids to school (LOL).

I’m at a loss. Could marriage counselling help? Surely it’s just changing a habit. People quit smoking, etc - surely, surely he can learn to be a bit tidier. I’m so sick of him now I just want to leave his pots and clothes and shoes in one pile and only tidy mine and the kids. Has anyone else been in a similar situation where they’ve successfully gotten someone to change?

Perhaps it would help him see it if you didn’t bin it but put it all in a box: litter, abandoned clothes, dirty mugs. When it’s full, dump it on his side of the bed/WFH desk/car seat/wherever is most inconvenient: “Here, this is 48 hours worth.” Every last teabag wrapper and opened envelope and sock and “does not belong here” item. Not your issue if it all humbles together in the box and his best tie meets the mould from his meal deal sandwich, or whatever.

(The only one I wouldn’t sweat is leaving the grass clippings on the lawn: it’s good for the soil!)

This. When he says ‘I got petrol’ reply with ‘only because you would have been stuck if you hadn’t’ or ‘I got bread and milk, cleaned the bath after you again, and cooked tea for the kids.’

I'm not actually very optimistic for your relationship, I am sorry, but in this instance I would be tempted to laugh in his face.

I do.accept that mem do.seem to be socialised to havr low standards and to completely expect women to not only do everything but also to be grateful when they step up a tiny bit. And good ones CAN get past this. So in that spirit, I will say that dh and I had similar arguments (although mine was a lot less shit than yours) and he tossed this sort of thing out once or twice. My response was to lose it, sarcastically ask if he really thinks filling up with petrol is the same as making dinner every night and suggesting that perhaps from now on, I will do the taks he thinks are so onerous and he can do the ones I have an issue with....

I do quite like the suggestion of gathering everything he leaves lying around and putting it in his bed or work bag or something (maybe not plates). Or if he was supposed to tidy and toys are all.over - pop those all in his bag/bed/car.

To be fair you've accepted his behaviour for over a decade so why will he change or even think he needs to?

Just wanted to say OP that from what I've read, you are in the same position I was in a few years back. I've put the thread address below.......

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4554129-ive-been-asking-dh-to-share-the-burden-of-housework-for-ten-years-now-aibu-to-issue-an-ultimatum

Now separated and looking at divorce. Turned out this was the tip of the iceberg and the lack of any kind of respect for me lead on to horrendous abuse. So my advice would be to look at moving on. Although it did take years for me to actually achieve it! Feel free to pm me if you want any specific advice or tips. I tried A LOT of different approaches! Best of luck to you @CMRE 💐

He thinks it is your job to clean up after him. Or else he thinks you and his children should tolerate living in mess and filth (which is what happens when noone cleans up).

I'd find it hard to live with this.

As a temporary solution I would do what a pp suggested and get a big cardboard box. Everything he leaves out/doesn't clean up goes into it - clothes, shoes, wrappers, jackets, cafetiere, mugs, plates, crap, random food he leaves out. If he asks where anything is the answer is "in your box".

So I have inattentive type ADHD - this isn’t characterised by being hyperactive, it’s really an issue with how my brain works.

A lot of what your husband does sounds familiar to me. It’s very difficult to explain why but I really really am not aware of housework, cannot follow routines without a thousand reminders and cannot see anything I’m not actively looking for - dirty plates are invisible to me unless I decide to check for dirty plates.

Might be worth just googling and seeing if any descriptions of inattentive adhd remind you of him?

Obviously even if so he has to get a grip and do his fair share, but maybe some of the techniques recommended for this condition would help him?

Sorry but he isn't going to change and frankly you knew what he was like. Nagging never helps either.

I don't know if there is a resolution if he's naturally lazy and messy and you're so far into your relationship. Part of the dating test is meant to be sussing out how clean they are but you've obviously long past that stage.

You can do reminders like you do with kids ("Who hasn't put their plate in the kitchen?) but it sounds like you'd be doing it a lot. As your kids get older, he might pick up what you're telling them (if his parents never taught him to clean after himself). I'd try a container for his mess, including food wrappers, and then leave it on his side of the bed. He might then realise how much he leaves lying around. I'd also assign him tasks (that can't be done too poorly like the lawns) to try balance out what you do (all the car fill-ups, car checkups, more school pickups/dropoffs) so you're not so resentful.

"once I asked him to hoover downstairs as we were in a rush for people arriving and he didn’t know how to turn it on."

The guy can work a lawn mower and drive a car, he can turn on a vacuum, it isn't rocket science. He's lying and being defensive because his lazy ass doesn't want to do domestic work.

You've enabled this laziness and weaponized incompetence since you moved in together. You knew he was messy. He knows you may fuss, but you aren't going anywhere so he's going to keep doing as little as he can get away with. It's gotten worse, you say, so his little will go down to nothing at some point and you'll have a Jabba the Husband lounging around while you do everything around the house

This isn't a habit. It's a deeply engrained world view. He sees you as the servant who cleans up after him and the maid who does the housework. I don't think that world view is going to change. If you dump him, he'll find another servant wife.

What can you do? Keep on doing the same thing with the same results. You can move him to his own room and throw every fucking bit of his mess in there. He does all his own cleaning and cooking and laundry. Stop doing any wife work for him. Or you can separate.

I wouldn't be able to tolerate his filthiness. And I do count leaving food wrappers scattered around and old coffee and stuff sitting for days and leaving grime after personal care as filth.

What positives does he bring to your marriage?

There’s this that might help. Your pile will be huge. His will be empty. Might help put it in perspective and will help you remember the million things you do. https://www.fairplaylife.com/the-cards

I like this. I would also keep the box outside by the bins. But to have to treat a dh as if he was a messy teen - where does it end, why should you have to? And this is not a one off list, it's a constant upkeep list

Write down all you do, house list, kids list, personal time- even if you don't have time put it down because you should have, cooking, etc.

Don't forget to add ' work full time'

Then say to him- Unless you earn enough to pay for a house keeper who comes in daily, or you can afford to support me not working - then you need to step up or you are going to ask him to leave - he can stay locally and see the kids but not stay, not eat, or have his washing done.

Not bath kids ( fun stuff) and leave the bathroom for you to clean and tidy because he bathed the kids. Like that's a chore!

Or just cut to the end, tell yours and his parents the problem, and say can they just take him away.

These men that think their wife is their mother really wind me up.

What an entitled prick he is to expect you to do everything.

I can tell you this as a lone parent of 15 years, my life is a lot easier without a useless manchild living in my house.

I think marriage counselling will help OP. It won't necessarily fix the problem, but at least it will show him how serious this is for you and hopefully the counsellor will call him out when he tries to deflect or gets defensive.

I agree with all of the above but to help with the deflecting, (DH used to do this) as soon as you hear him attempt it you counter with a calm ‘That’s not what we’re talking about that now, what we are talking about is you leaving your wrappers all over the living room’

He sounds a lot like my 14 yeqr old daughter and I'm at my wits end with her

It must affect how you see him as a sexual partner. Perhaps he needs to hear that having sex with a lazy, dirty child doesn't turn you on.

A cleaner xant help with this. They cant come everyday to tidy his mess