Other people's children- commenting on the parenting of others

[lawmum3]

We have just returned from a weekend away with friends and respective children. All of the families bar one have children of a similar age (7-12). The exception have slightly older boys at 13 and 15. The exception family genuinely seem to think their kids can do no wrong and can be left "unparented" because of their ages. They also allow their kids to swear - which is their choice but uncomfortable when they allow it in front of the other families' children. The parents of the teens genuinely believe they are amazing parents and give the rest of us parenting tips. Tips that- it is safe to say- we do not follow.

On our return from the weekend away, I found out that my 12 year old son was slapped across his face by the 15 year old (who is tall and broad and a good 8 or so inches taller than my son) because my son annoyed him.

I feel that the slapping is completely inappropriate given the age (and size) difference between the children. It is clear that my son was too intimidated to mention it at the time of the weekend away because the 15 year old was still present and is still a bit shook up by it. My son has younger siblings himself and they do occasionally physically fight (and told off for it). However, the experience of being hit by someone considerably bigger and older has clearly rattled him.

There are also issues with the 13 year old child of this family. He does furtive mean things to the younger children (nothing too sinister- things like removing toys to deliberately upset them - nothing dangerous). However, I feel like he needs to be watched at all times. In our group situations, this seems to fall on the other parents to do, as his own parents think as he is older, he does not need close supervision.

I feel awful that I did not know that the slap happened at the time. We were all in a holiday house and not all the people were in the same room at the same time all of the time (we were spread out across the garden, bedrooms, lounges).

As we do not see this friendship group too often, I am tempted to not say anything. By the time we meet up again- possibly in a year's time- I will just need to ensure that my kids have an even wider berth from the older troublesome teens.

However, I have a doubt about this "burying my head in the sand" approach; is it better to put a marker down and make the parents aware?

As I feel at the moment, I am not inclined to see the teen family at all. I am not the sort of person who likes to exclude others, so it's a tricky situation: it is not as simple as "just don't invite that family in future"- we have been meeting up as the same group (with or without kids) for more than twenty years. It would be obvious if we simply stopped inviting one family.

I think my question is: at what point is it appropriate to comment on other parents' discipline/parenting approaches?

You can inform the parents about the disclosure. Clearly they may not do anything about it, but it's not worth kicking up a fight over. Maybe next time you should consider a different structure of holiday.

I wouldn’t go away with them at all again. Hitting is unacceptable full stop, even between siblings IMO - the age/size of someone doesn’t matter. Good natured play wrestling is different, but hitting? No way.

If you’re not brave enough to raise it with the other parents and resolve it right now as soon as you’ve found out about it, then don’t subject your child to that environment again. Be brave enough to stand up for them over the group.

I think raising it would just look like ‘I found out this happened’ and see what they say and decide what you want to do from there. You can’t dictate to other parents what they should do and there’s no need to get into judging whether their parenting is objectively right or wrong, but you can decide for yourself whether you’re willing to spend time with people who do/don’t discipline their children i.e. what’s right/wrong for you and your family to be around.

I wouldn’t put my child in a position where they had to spend time with that child again, anymore than I’d put myself in the position with someone who assaulted me.

Your child needs to see you have his back on this.

Don't go with them again. I think you should raise it with the parents, if only to try to save their child being assaulted when they pick on someone with greater strength.

I personally wouldn't be able to let my 12 year old getting slapped by anyone go. I'd have to let the parents know. It's not about commenting on their parenting approach, it's simply letting them know what happened and that you're not happy about it.

I agree with the others - your son is rattled, you need to model how to react in these situations, otherwise he will think it's ok to just ignore that someone has hit you.

You need to tell the parents, quite firmly (do not apologise for bringing it up), and not allow this boy around your son again.

I would 100% be telling the parents what happened and explaining that's the reason why you won't be holidaying with them again. YWBU not to in my opinion.

You need to inform them that it happened. You can do this without commenting on their parenting.

Deal with the next meet-up when it happens, maybe their son won't come as he'll be old enough to be left behind, maybe you can go without your kids, maybe you can stay separately etc. What you can't do is make your son spend time with this child again because you're too scared to rock the boat with this other family. That's a terrible example to set for your children.

I would be livid and in no world would I want to be around these people or their kids again. I’d address it directly with the family and make it clear how I felt.

I would bring it up with them.

You've found out about it, you're not happy and in future if their child has a problem with your child you expect it to be raised to you and violence isn't acceptable.

They need to know that their 15 year old is likely to get himself in serious trouble - either legal trouble or physical trouble from someone's parent or older brother - by going around belting younger kids. It's simply unacceptable.

You can tell the parents but they'll either deny it or downplay it. I wouldn't bother, but I would not go away with them again. Slapping my child is not on

You definitely need to bring it up with them. At those ages they shouldn’t need a high level of supervision so the parents aren’t wrong there. But maybe in these scenarios they do. However they can’t fix things if they don’t know.

I would tell them. And I wouldn’t go away with them again, and if asked would say why.

You can mention the hitting without commenting on their parenting style. Then prior to the next trip you can ask them how they propose to stop it happening again.

Also get your son some boxing lessons, will do wonders for his confidence, and instruct him to punch the kid in the mouth should it happen again. 8 inches is nothing.

Ask your son if he'd like to go away with them again, specifically the face slapper. I think you know what he'll say. He's not going to be looking forward to it, is he?

Tell the parents. They can - and will - laugh it off but you will have done your son a favour.

I'd raise it with the 15 y.o.'s parents.
I'd then inform the other parents (how you do this depends on the outcome of the first point). After all, how would you feel if you knew that one of the group knew about this behaviour but didn't give you the heads-up?
Then the way forward is a group decision, not just yours.

I can't believe you would even contemplate not mentioning it! Stick up for your son and let his parents (and the rest of your friends) know what happened. My son would be going nowhere near them ever again!

I agree with PP who said mention the slap but not the parenting style. Keep it factual: this happened, and currently DS is not comfortable to go away with your DC again.

Feelings will inevitably be high on both sides (I would very much want to discuss the parenting style of any kid who assaulted my DC) but that is all the more reason to stick to the facts.

Thank you for all the responses. I have made the parents aware and firmly but politely said that I am not happy and it's upset my son. I will see how they respond.

It will be more than a year before a next in-person meet up is likely due to the geography of where everyone lives/school holidays etc. If something looks like it will be lined up, I will speak to my son at that time and see if he is happy to go or not- or if he would prefer not to go.

I have spoken to some of the parents within the wider group and I know others are not happy with the way that the teens are acting with the younger children (it is not just the physical side but also the swearing and inappropriate conversations). No other adults were aware of the slap. I will leave the discussions with the wider group there as otherwise we risk it turning into a situation where we are all talking about this one family behind their back rather than dealing with the issue.

I agree that future meet ups may need a different structure. Previously we have camped which gives each family their own space for sleeping but the rest of the time everyone is together within an open space. This trip was different as it was in a holiday house so there were different rooms for people to congregate in and it was whilst some of the kids were in a different room to others that the altercation occurred. I would vote to go back to camping but I know that the other families tend to prefer a house for comfort and amenities.

I see that it looks very black and white when it's written in a post like this. Slapping = unacceptable. However, as with all things in life, it is more nuanced; there are long-standing relationships here that risk being damaged if offence is caused. But I agree that my son's wellbeing is paramount which is why I have raised it.

I'm glad you've raised it.

If you do go again for a meet up then can you suggest ahead of time that the older children and adults do not swear in front of the younger, impressionable children. That avoids that issue at least.

Do your children watn to be with them again? I would let them lead what happens

But this is more a general comment but why would parents assuw kids want to holiday together, unless they choose too of course

We had similar but it was with family (sil’s kids)

we couldn’t refuse to see them but we did have a “parent policy” which was basically we decided that one or other of us would be supervising our children at all times. We took shifts.

SIL was happy to tell off her kids if they did hit but hers were just a bit more feral than our s could cope with.

hers were younger in this case.

we never did persuade her to supervise them.

we did cut down the amount of times we visited family and stayed overnight much less as it was very tiring.

I think next time you need to agree parenting boundaries upfront. Ie talk about the fact that there’s a big difference between 10 & 16 or whatever the gap is, and how that should be handled. it definitely sounds like the teens are immature & need handling better. For context, we went away at Easter with a group ranging from 5, lots age 9-13ish then a 17 & 19yo. the older teens were amazing with the younger ones - actively looking out for them and certainly not stealing toys or physical abuse!! It may have suited the families to go on these trips for many years, but you might find it doesn’t suit the next generation at all. They’re being forced together, not choosing their friends

I think the other families deserve to know about the slap. Maybe after you have received an answer from the teenagers parents so you can include that response (especially if it's not suitably apologetic and promises to ensure it doesn't happen again). The other parents in the group have the right to decide whether to go to future catch ups with all the information and you are wrong to withhold that. It could just as easily be their children who get hit or worse in future and if it then comes out this happened to your son they would be justifiably upset with you for not telling them.

Turn it around, what if you found out now that one of the other children hade been hit at the last group event and no one told you? How would you feel now your own child has been hit?

No long term adult friendships are worth forcing your kids to have to pout up with violence. My mother used to make us spent time with the kids of her friends and some of them were awful to us younger ones. I still resent that she wanted to socialise more than protect us.

edited to add: I don't think its fair to put the responsibility for deciding whether to go next time onto your son. He's too young for that decision; it's yours as the parents.

The decision whether or not to go would not be on my son. I would just ascertain how he is feeling at that time.